Union coalition plan
- Thread starter DB Cooper
- Start date
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
Speaking from experience, I'd be careful putting all the retirement eggs in the company basket. I did it at U and turned 6 figures into $1100 bucks. Gullible doesn't begin to describe how I feel about it!
A320 Driver
A320 Driver
Given the current enviroment and the USAirways concessionary agreements, I believe there will be no job protection clauses coming. In fact, your ability to maintain letter 94-5 will be extremely difficult. I also believe that given the current enviroment, the company is in the driver seat. How much they take advantage of this is unkown. According to West Coast IAM sources and the rumormill (not much credence I know), the Indy facility will be acquiesced. I assume all parties involved do realize by now that pay and benefits cuts will be forth coming, along with significant downsizing until stabiliztion of some sort is achieved.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
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On 9/21/2002 12:02:57 AM Taipan wrote:
Heard a few things today as the IAM had some kinda of national deal here in H-Town
1.IAM is working hard on recovery plan but will not be rushed by other unions intrests/pressure or deadlines aka they said the 19th of SEP was an ALPA deadline that they did not agree to
2.They felt confident it would get done but gave no set time frame, probably early next week
3.They felt more confident of outside lender financing instead of the ATSB route
4.No part of the plan was revealed
5.Next week will be interesting
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Mostly true IMHO. But the real rub is the IAM is trying to extort ALPA (ala EAL) to fund thier share of the deal. they feel as the only holdout they can take much less than an equitable share of the pain.
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On 9/21/2002 12:02:57 AM Taipan wrote:
Heard a few things today as the IAM had some kinda of national deal here in H-Town
1.IAM is working hard on recovery plan but will not be rushed by other unions intrests/pressure or deadlines aka they said the 19th of SEP was an ALPA deadline that they did not agree to
2.They felt confident it would get done but gave no set time frame, probably early next week
3.They felt more confident of outside lender financing instead of the ATSB route
4.No part of the plan was revealed
5.Next week will be interesting
----------------
[/blockquote]
Mostly true IMHO. But the real rub is the IAM is trying to extort ALPA (ala EAL) to fund thier share of the deal. they feel as the only holdout they can take much less than an equitable share of the pain.
Heard a few things today as the IAM had some kinda of national deal here in H-Town
1.IAM is working hard on recovery plan but will not be rushed by other unions intrests/pressure or deadlines aka they said the 19th of SEP was an ALPA deadline that they did not agree to
2.They felt confident it would get done but gave no set time frame, probably early next week
3.They felt more confident of outside lender financing instead of the ATSB route
4.No part of the plan was revealed
5.Next week will be interesting
1.IAM is working hard on recovery plan but will not be rushed by other unions intrests/pressure or deadlines aka they said the 19th of SEP was an ALPA deadline that they did not agree to
2.They felt confident it would get done but gave no set time frame, probably early next week
3.They felt more confident of outside lender financing instead of the ATSB route
4.No part of the plan was revealed
5.Next week will be interesting
[blockquote]
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Mostly true IMHO. But the real rub is the IAM is trying to extort ALPA (ala EAL) to fund thier share of the deal. they feel as the only holdout they can take much less than an equitable share of the pain.
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If the IAM is holding out then they are trying to save face. They know anything like what US Air got will put AMFA on the property. Maybe not a bad thing.
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Mostly true IMHO. But the real rub is the IAM is trying to extort ALPA (ala EAL) to fund thier share of the deal. they feel as the only holdout they can take much less than an equitable share of the pain.
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[/blockquote]
If the IAM is holding out then they are trying to save face. They know anything like what US Air got will put AMFA on the property. Maybe not a bad thing.
UAL777flyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 730
- 0
I think these kinds of rumblings, if true, are EXACTLY what people are afraid of. That this coalition plan is being billed as something more than it will end up being because it's nearly impossible to get UA union consensus on whether the sun rises each morning. I sincerely hope that this will not all prove to have been a waste of time. You can bet that if this proposal isn't workable, a bankruptcy filing will soon follow. The time for union squabbling is over. Either the unions collectively use this one opportunity to find a mutually acceptable way out of UA's mess, or bankruptcy will happen and it will hit the fan at that point. I'm cautiously optimistic and hope the coalition plan truly is a large step forward in terms of the unions coming together for the good of the company as a whole. We shall see. But time is, indeed, running out.
Tim Thorpe
Member
- Aug 20, 2002
- 53
- 0
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On 9/20/2002 2:15:38 PM The Ronin wrote:
Given the current enviroment and the USAirways concessionary agreements, I believe there will be no job protection clauses coming. In fact, your ability to maintain letter 94-5 will be extremely difficult. I also believe that given the current enviroment, the company is in the driver seat. How much they take advantage of this is unkown. According to West Coast IAM sources and the rumormill (not much credence I know), the Indy facility will be acquiesced. I assume all parties involved do realize by now that pay and benefits cuts will be forth coming, along with significant downsizing until stabiliztion of some sort is achieved.
According to west coast sources Indy has been closing every year since 1994 when we first opened up. If thats the case there is nothing I can do about it. Let the bumping begin. If there is no job protection in the concession agreement and if the current protection we have in our contract is worthless then UAL cannot sell the deal. I think most people in the maintenance division will vote to take UAL with us if we are going to be out of work anyway. It is not like they have earned our loyalty. We are only here for the money and benefits just like every other worker in America. As for compensation cuts most of us accept that they are coming. If they are fair I think most will agree to accept them. If they are excessive then UAL will probably get their wish and be able to file for BK
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On 9/20/2002 2:15:38 PM The Ronin wrote:
Given the current enviroment and the USAirways concessionary agreements, I believe there will be no job protection clauses coming. In fact, your ability to maintain letter 94-5 will be extremely difficult. I also believe that given the current enviroment, the company is in the driver seat. How much they take advantage of this is unkown. According to West Coast IAM sources and the rumormill (not much credence I know), the Indy facility will be acquiesced. I assume all parties involved do realize by now that pay and benefits cuts will be forth coming, along with significant downsizing until stabiliztion of some sort is achieved.
According to west coast sources Indy has been closing every year since 1994 when we first opened up. If thats the case there is nothing I can do about it. Let the bumping begin. If there is no job protection in the concession agreement and if the current protection we have in our contract is worthless then UAL cannot sell the deal. I think most people in the maintenance division will vote to take UAL with us if we are going to be out of work anyway. It is not like they have earned our loyalty. We are only here for the money and benefits just like every other worker in America. As for compensation cuts most of us accept that they are coming. If they are fair I think most will agree to accept them. If they are excessive then UAL will probably get their wish and be able to file for BK
T2...The relocation of the 767/757 fleet engineering back to the west coast helped perpetuate this rumor. Also, IAM entities have not helped but fueled this rumor with comments to the same effect. USAir did not offer any job security and in fact even told it's employee groups layoffs were ahead, but offered flight benefits for 3 months just to get more votes on the concessions for those that knew they were on the way out. I don't think any airline at this juncture could even begin to make no layoff statements. They will get what they need, one way or another. If United represents 17% of the total air travel market, and there has been a 16% fall off in total air travel since Sept 11th, then basically one major carrier could disappear and the current supply and demand would essentially stabilize. Without being a pessimist, I can’t really see how UAL doesn’t file BK. In today’s environment, it may actually be the surest way to survive all of this believe it or not. But then again, this is not a very experienced opinion in these matters.
The real distinction is between those who adapt their purposes to reality and those who seek to mold reality in the light of their purposes.
Henry Kissinger (1923 - )
The real distinction is between those who adapt their purposes to reality and those who seek to mold reality in the light of their purposes.
Henry Kissinger (1923 - )
Tim Thorpe
Member
- Aug 20, 2002
- 53
- 0
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On 9/22/2002 11:59:09 PM Rhino wrote:
T2, [[We are only here for the money and benefits just like every other worker in America. ]]
NOT every other American worker. That's the description of a loser. It is an accurate description of too many airline employees, however.
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Hey Rhino are you looking for another Mastermechanic? You won't find him here. Name me one current UAL employee who wouldn't leave right now for better or even equal money and benefits? Aviation is no longer a passion. it is simply a job.
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On 9/22/2002 11:59:09 PM Rhino wrote:
T2, [[We are only here for the money and benefits just like every other worker in America. ]]
NOT every other American worker. That's the description of a loser. It is an accurate description of too many airline employees, however.
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[/blockquote]
Hey Rhino are you looking for another Mastermechanic? You won't find him here. Name me one current UAL employee who wouldn't leave right now for better or even equal money and benefits? Aviation is no longer a passion. it is simply a job.
