All UAL wants for Christmas is Labor Agreements

[Busdrvr]

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On 12/30/2002 3:39:28 AM kcabpilot wrote:


the number will just keep getting bigger (and you ranks will get smaller) till you catch a clue.
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Catch a clue? You better catch a clue Busdrvr. They started out saying they needed 9 billion, now it's 14. Guess what the latest number is, analysts are quoting 24 and you know how UAL management loves those analysts. Let's see, 24 billion by 80,000 employees (oh but you said the numbers would be smaller) maybe 50,000? Okay, that's only about half a million dollars per employee but they'll give you six years to pay it off.

60% paycuts? Look 747mech, nobody's gonna be coming to work for 14 an hour. They can just shut the doors and start trying to sell what they have for a dime on the dollar.
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That's RIGHT, IT DID START OUT AT 9 BILLION. AS A MATTER OF FACT IT WAS PROB ONLY AROUND 4 BILLION BACK WHEN YOU GUYS WERE THREATENING TO STRIKE UNLESS YOU WERE THE BEST PAID IN THE INDUSTRY!!!!! IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE UNTIL WE TURN THE SHIP AROUND!!!!! HOW MANY MORE JOBS ARE YOU WILLING TO WASTE? As for taking a bullet for old Bob, who do you think will replace UAL's capacity? I'm willing to bet it won't be just AMR, CAL and NWA, I'm willing to bet it will a few more low fare, low pay outfits that will continue to prove that thesame amount of MX can be done with less than 1/2 the number of much lower paid Mechs. You need to wear a mask when your in the paint shop for long periods!!

 

[Busdrvr]

"When we did deicing we used a fraction of the fluid, knew where not to spray and why and performed the job much more efficiently. If you take a 6 hour delay and use a couple of thousand extra gallons of fluid where are the savings?"

Last time our Mechs de-iced in DEN we "saved" lots of money in engine repairs.... Why don't you rally the troops at AMR and get D&R and the same level of MX manning per airplane. Seems you guys are "dragging" down the industry. Until then, you should prob shut the **** up.

 

[ual06]

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On 12/31/2002 9:54:37 AM ualdriver wrote:

As you read Bow Owens' posts, keep in mind that he is an American Airlines employee and stands to gain, directly and indirectly, from a weakened or failed United Airlines.
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Also, Treasure of Transport Workers Union Local 562 - competitor to the IAM ?

http://www.twu562.org/

 

[ualdriver]

As you read Bow Owens' posts, keep in mind that he is an American Airlines employee and stands to gain, directly and indirectly, from a weakened or failed United Airlines.

 

[The Ronin]

Guess what the "low fare" carriers pay their mechanics...I think you need some fresh air Busdvr

 

[kcabpilot]

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On 12/31/2002 10:16:10 AM Busdrvr wrote:

That's RIGHT, IT DID START OUT AT 9 BILLION. AS A MATTER OF FACT IT WAS PROB ONLY AROUND 4 BILLION BACK WHEN YOU GUYS WERE THREATENING TO STRIKE UNLESS YOU WERE THE BEST PAID IN THE INDUSTRY!!!!!

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Whoa Busdrvr - who's the best paid in the industry? Who's you daddy?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 12/31/2002 10:08:19 AM Busdrvr wrote:

"When we did deicing we used a fraction of the fluid, knew where not to spray and why and performed the job much more efficiently. If you take a 6 hour delay and use a couple of thousand extra gallons of fluid where are the savings?"

Last time our Mechs de-iced in DEN we "saved" lots of money in engine repairs.... Why don't you rally the troops at AMR and get D&R and the same level of MX manning per airplane. Seems you guys are "dragging" down the industry. Until then, you should prob shut the **** up.
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Well if we are going to be childish: MAKE ME!!

 

[Busdrvr]

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On 12/31/2002 12:42:03 PM The Ronin wrote:

Guess what the "low fare" carriers pay their mechanics...I think you need some fresh air Busdvr
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I think you need to comprehend basic math. If UAL put 10 pilots on each and every jet, but paid them half of todays salary, would the pilots be correct to say "we're not the problem"? It's not about what any individual makes, it's about the TOTAL cost of the workforce. If the low fares do the same amount of MX with HALF the number of mechanics, then it follows that although they may be paid similar wages, they are costing the company HALF as much. The company would be perfectly happy to pay the current Mechs the same rate...if your willing to ****can half your workforce. Guess what, that's the plan.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 12/31/2002 9:54:37 AM ualdriver wrote:

As you read Bow Owens' posts, keep in mind that he is an American Airlines employee and stands to gain, directly and indirectly, from a weakened or failed United Airlines.
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I see no benifit in having one less potential employer in the industry. I would rather that UAL prosper so long as its mechanics also prosper. A weakened or failing UAL would have a greater advantage at holding the line or retarding wages and that is not in my best interests.
Whats your gig? Are you a mechanic, or one of those six figure guys?

 

[ual747mech]

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On 12/31/2002 3:46:12 AM The Ronin wrote:

The company has already told the IAM, jet shop...gone, indy...gone, oak...gone. So why do you think the IAM is going to court??? Because you might as well make them take it all instead of just giving it away.
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If that's the case, "I say yes take it to court." It'll be a matter of who can convince the court more whether those are necessary or not to make the company survive.

My prediction though is that the IAM and the Company will come to a consensual agreement before it goes to 1113©. The IAM knew that the company is reducing its size therefore they knew that they are going to close some of the maintenance facility. If you look at Continental and other carrier that filed bankruptcy in the past, they shrunk. I believe US Air closed their Pittsburg or Tampa Bay? facility. Continental went down to 1/3rd of its original size but grew back as it made it out of bankruptcy and got healthier.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 12/31/2002 220 PM Busdrvr wrote:

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On 12/31/2002 12:42:03 PM The Ronin wrote:

Guess what the "low fare" carriers pay their mechanics...I think you need some fresh air Busdvr
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I think you need to comprehend basic math. If UAL put 10 pilots on each and every jet, but paid them half of todays salary, would the pilots be correct to say "we're not the problem"? It's not about what any individual makes, it's about the TOTAL cost of the workforce. If the low fares do the same amount of MX with HALF the number of mechanics, then it follows that although they may be paid similar wages, they are costing the company HALF as much. The company would be perfectly happy to pay the current Mechs the same rate...if your willing to ****can half your workforce. Guess what, that's the plan.
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How many pilots per aircraft does UAL have? How many mechanics per aircraft?

The low fare mechanics do not do the same amount of work, they contract it out. You have to add that cost in too. Its not like that work gets done for free. As the low cost carriers get bigger they take more work in house as their larger size makes it more cost efficient. The comparasion should be the total maintenance budget as a perecentage of the total operating budget. Even then the comparasion is not completely valid because the multiple equipement types pumps up the numbers at UAL.If UAL decides to contract out more and more work what do you think will happen to the cost of contracted out work? It will go up. So along with the increased cost, and the loss of quality control the airlines will end up saving little or nothing. Dont get too smug, they can end up contracting out pilots work too, didnt BA do that? I just read an article where they want to develop pilot-less airplanes for commercial use. It seems that its been so successful for the military that they want to use it for civilian use. Freighters first, then passengers later. They figure that it will prevent hijackings and save the airlines tons of money. Personally I dont see it coming to passenger use, I'd rather have a well paid pilot up front but for freighters, yea why not. That would create a surplus of pilots though. The pilotless drones dont displace mechanics, somebody still has to maintain them.

 

[BillLumbergh]

Be nice folks.

 

[ual747mech]

"Ok Bob, since you seem to know everything,lets hear it." We are going to forget about our Unions, we are going to consult with you instead. You are going to be our lawyer, financial adviser, and analyst. In one word you're the "Expert". "I WANT YOU TO ADVISE US ON WHAT TO DO, HOW SHOULD WE HANDLE WHAT WE ARE FACING, ETC."

Before you give us your expert advice I hope you did some research like a real attorney does(Just like us mechanics, we look at the MM, SRM etc. to help us when we do a job, especially jobs we're not familiar with). When you give us your advice give us what you got to back it up with, cite the case or other credible data you got because I don't want to hear you say you got it from your buddy Joe Blow while you guys are playing cards or bs'ing during your idle time there in the line. "K, buddy."

 

[ual747mech]

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On 12/31/2002 9:01:50 AM Bob Owens wrote:


Has the company revised their demands or are they still asking for a six year agreement?

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Yes, the demand has been revised. It is bigger and longer term now. It is now 2.4 billion per year and will last till 2009. The reason why is because a special financing is in place. The banks that are financing the company in bankruptcy are demanding certain things in order for them to loan us the money. They are basically running the show now. As you can see it is more expensive for us now to try to stay afloat. Bankruptcy is very expensive because you need lawyers and other professionals that cost the company a lot of money to handle things in court.

As you can see it's costing us employees more too.
Now do you see why it would've been better for us to get the ATSB loan and work things outside of Bankruptcy?

 

[ual747mech]

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On 12/31/2002 2:37:13 AM kcabpilot wrote:

UAL management would like you to believe that if you didn't show up tomorrow they could just go across the street and things would cruise along like normal. That's a big lie. If the Mechanics lay down their tools it's over pal. No Buses for Busdrvr, even Glenn would have to buy a ticket on another airline.
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All I'm saying is lets be reasonable. Lets work smart, we are not gonna stop concession all we can do is to minimize it. Don't make the wrong move because it will make things worst as you can see. I don't mean to cave in to management demands, they have to be reasonable too. Let's wait to see how things play out. Talk to your union leadership. If you don't trust the IAM dig information somewhere else. Ask question as much as possible so you can be informed. Knowledge is power, agree?