Uncle Bob is back....

[AAObserver]

RV4,

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I would be interested in knowing your thoughts (from a hard business standpoint, not a "feeling" standpoint") on how AA will survive the current situation which will undoubtedly take them into Ch. 11.

 

[AAObserver]

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And just WHO do you suppose made them bitter?


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Oh I''m sorry. I didn''t realize that AA employees were actually 2 year olds that are too ignorant to go find other work when they don''t like their boss.

You see, most companies employ adults who look for a better work situation if they feel they aren''t being treated properly. And most companies have employees that understand that Fortune 500 CEOs get retention bonuses.

I guess it''s easier to sit around and complain considering you have a union that promotes that sort of thing.

 

[AAObserver]

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On 4/21/2003 6:35:00 PM AAONO wrote:






AA is never going to survive with it''s current union structure in place because the unions are way too bitter.


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Bitter???? Yes I am, I was lied to. I no longer see that huge grin on Carty''s face like the one he had when he was announcing concessions. Too bad he isn''t sincere. See you in the unemployment line!

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I won''t be in the unemployment line sweetheart. I''m not about to vote my company into bankruptcy. 🙂

 

[WingNaPrayer]

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On 4/21/2003 5:33:09 PM AAObserver wrote:

AA is never going to survive with it''s current union structure in place because the unions are way too bitter.

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And just WHO do you suppose made them bitter?

***** ***** ***** ***** *****

​

 

[RV4]

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On 4/21/2003 6:35:26 PM AAObserver wrote:

RV4,

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I would be interested in knowing your thoughts (from a hard business standpoint, not a "feeling" standpoint") on how AA will survive the current situation which will undoubtedly take them into Ch. 11.

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If you want a "hard business standpoint" thought from me then give me the business plan over the next 10 years and I will give you my thoughts.

You see, a feeling (Fear) is all we have to vote on, and that is why you only get that "standpoint" during these discussions. If all we have is the emotion of fear to vote on, then that is all we can discuss, unless of course we could make believe we know erverybody's thoughts, work habits, likes, and dislikes, as you apparently have a gift for knwoing.

Unless you have the plan, I doubt your thoughts are much more than emotional feelings too?

As for Chapter 11, I "feel" and "think" that AA may need to go there to get the leadership needed to survive. We have given Carty and company concession after concession and we still find ourselves here today. Why is that and what is the plan?

 

[skymd80]

RV4...You are too funny! All in a day's work, and the drama continues!

 

[AAObserver]

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On 4/21/2003 607 PM kimmyg wrote:


You probably can't even vote AAObserver because you are management
and you don't get to vote. I'd like to say you are a devils advocate seeing
both sides but I fear you are the devil.

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Actually, I'm not part of AA management. I'm one of what AA dubbed "OBC" or "Our Best Customers" a couple of years ago. I spend alot of time and money with American Airlines and can't stand to watch it go down the tubes because of it's union structure.

And no matter how you slice it or how bad a man you believe Carty is, without the union structure AA would not be facing bankruptcy right now.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Back on topic:
You will have read it here first..when Uncle Don hit the bicks...

 

[RV4]

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On 4/21/2003 7:59:54 PM AAObserver wrote:

Since when do you need someone else's business plan to give your thoughts on how the company will survive now that the unions are about to put it in bankruptcy?

What type of business plan do you envision that will have more value to creditors than selling off AA assets in pieces once it enters ch. 11?
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The union members have nothing but the emotion FEAR to vote on. What do you want me to say? That using fear to extract concessions from employees without a business plan is good company policy? Sorry but I dont think that is sound business at all.

Given that the problem is low revenue, which is a direct result of over supply, I think selling off some assests and downsizing is in the best interest of the creditors, the airline, and the employees. Now would you like to tell everyone how I "really think"?

 

[AAStew]

AAOB,
For one of our "Best Customers" you certainly have alot of free time on your hands. I don''t have as much time as you seem to and I am on leave! My spouse is in the business world and pretty succesful and does not seem to have even 1/100th of the time you do to whine on the boards. Wow that shows how important you must be....

 

[AAObserver]

Since when do you need someone else''s business plan to give your thoughts on how the company will survive now that the unions are about to put it in bankruptcy?

What type of business plan do you envision that will have more value to creditors than selling off AA assets in pieces once it enters ch. 11?

 

[AAObserver]

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On 4/21/2003 8:13:20 PM RV4 wrote:


P>The union members have nothing but the emotion FEAR to vote on. What do you want me to say? That using fear to extract concessions from employees without a business plan is good company policy? Sorry but I dont think that is sound business at all.

Given that the problem is low revenue, which is  a direct result of over supply, I think selling off some assests and downsizing is in the best interest of the creditors, the airline, and the employees. Now would like to tell everyone how I "really think"?

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I''m just asking you to think with a business mind. Fear has nothing to do it.

Yes, low revenue is part of the problem. But the real problem is an unsustainable cost structure. AA''s labor costs are way too high to support the industry-wide drop in revenue. Selling assets will help bring cash in temporarily, but the only way to solve the problem for the long run is to reduce the on-going cost structure which is mainly labor.

Carty is trying to reduce the cost structure through concessions. He isn''t asking for concessions because it''s fun, he''s doing it to save the airline. In case you noticed, he took the retention bonuses (which the board had setup to be paid in 2004) and moved them back to 2005 before he cancelled them altogether. He did this for cost savings, and he didn''t have to.

If AA goes into bankruptcy, the BK court will reduce labor costs first and foremost. (Interestingly enough, WorldCom had better cash flow and revenue than AA does prior to it''s ch. 11 filing, but through bankruptcy they went from 90,000 employees to 55,000).

The only business plan that will succeed is reduction of costs, including labor costs. I have no idea why you and some of the others here feel they will get a better deal if AA goes chapter 11. If you "win" by voting to rescind the concession contract, then what do you really "win"?

 

[WingNaPrayer]

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On 4/21/2003 9:42:07 PM Imagolfer wrote:

WingNaPrayer,

I am afraid you are the one who does not have a clue. AAobserver seems to have a pretty keen business mind, one that is looking at this from outside the company. All you can do is spew union retoric, and do not know the consequences of what could happen without employee givebacks.

It seems that this board, with the exception of a few outside opinions is just a union propaganda board.

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Don't give ME that Union crap! You're barking up the wrong tree! I'm anti-union, but PRO-labor!

....and I don't work for your airline or I'd be suing the old fart myself!

If the airline goes bankrupt, it won't be labor's fault, although labor will take the brunt of the blame.

If you need a bankruptcy scapegoat, don't point your finger at labor, point it at your own federal government.

***** ***** ***** ***** *****

 

[Imagolfer]

WingNaPrayer,

I am afraid you are the one who does not have a clue. AAobserver seems to have a pretty keen business mind, one that is looking at this from outside the company. All you can do is spew union retoric, and do not know the consequences of what could happen without employee givebacks.

It seems that this board, with the exception of a few outside opinions is just a union propaganda board.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

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On 4/21/2003 7:30:11 PM AAObserver wrote:

Oh I''m sorry. I didn''t realize that AA employees were actually 2 year olds that are too ignorant to go find other work when they don''t like their boss.

You see, most companies employ adults who look for a better work situation if they feel they aren''t being treated properly. And most companies have employees that understand that Fortune 500 CEOs get retention bonuses.

I guess it''s easier to sit around and complain considering you have a union that promotes that sort of thing.

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Ok now I understand, I just misinterpreted that you had a CLUE what corporate America is all about, but obviously you don''t.

You seem to think that this is just an airline and that the executive can do as he/she pleases and if employess don''t like it, they can take a hike. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but . . .in corporate america the executive level is responsible to, and must answer to the stockholders. Secondly, some of what has been done at AA is borderline criminal, and in my mind, some of the things warrant indictments.

However, your answer appears to be that it''s ok for the executive level to pull it''s shenannigans and get away with it, and employees can just go elsewhere if they don''t like it. Do you realize just how childish that sounds?

The executive level at AMR attempted to reduce wages, benefits and work rules because they claimed the company needed the money. On the other hand, they were quickly drawing up paperwork that basically puts that money employees were to give up . . . into their own pockets in the form of retention bonuses and slush fund retirement plans . . . and YOU think that''s ok?

YOU are the one that needs to find a new profession. Might I suggest flipping burgers somehwere? Surely your mentality will fit right in. Would you like fries with that?

You''re out of your league!

***** ***** ***** ***** *****