Ual Fa's Threaten Strike
- Thread starter Borescope
- Start date
No cajons in this union. The AFA cash cow is the United group. We have more than 15,000 more members than the next closest group (US). It is widely accepted that if any group strikes, they may as well turn off the lights and go home. Game/Set/Match!
This union is all about $$$.....and the UAL group supplies it.
There will NEVER be a strike from the AFA
This union is all about $$$.....and the UAL group supplies it.
There will NEVER be a strike from the AFA
Fly is 100% correct. You will just see the same old chest thumping that you saw with the ALPA at US and UA, the AFA at US, the AMFA at NW and UA, and the IAM at U, and the unions at AA. The only thing that ALL the unions want is the dues. ALPA, IAM, AFA, AMFA, and the TWU...not a ball between them. In my opinion, what will happen at UA when Tilton imposes his terms is what happened at US. Those who are fed up and can leave, will in mass numbers, and those who can't will stay and accept it.
DON'T GIVE IN. :angry:
United's unions vow to fight pension cuts
By kyamanouchi@denverpost.com
Kelly Yamanouchi
Denver Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 -
United Airlines employees could soon see the end of comfortable pension benefits.
But some union leaders will fight the move.
United, which has 6,000 employees in Denver, struck a deal last week with the U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. to terminate all four of its employee pension plans.
The company said the agreement - which could give the agency partial ownership in the airline - brings it closer to getting out of bankruptcy.
From the perspective of the Association of Flight Attendants, "this is far from over," said spokeswoman Sara Nelson Dela Cruz. "We are exhausting every legal option with fighting this, and if necessary, we'll strike. ... United is making an end run around our right to due process."
Some flight attendants won't be able to retire early from their physically taxing jobs if they lose their pensions, said Jody Weant, local head of the flight attendants union. And other flight attendants could quit if the deal goes through, she said.
Joseph Prisco, president of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association Local 9, said the mechanics union hasn't agreed to relinquish its pension plan yet.
"There's still an item in our contract that says they have to give us our pension," Prisco said. He said the union can continue negotiations for a deal that members could ratify. But if they can't, "then the membership is going to want to strike."
United believes a strike would be illegal.
To that, Prisco said, "Sometimes you don't have to ask permission to be mad."
The International Association of Machinists, which called the deal between United and the pension agency a "sellout," also said it is prepared to strike if pension issues are not resolved to its members' satisfaction.
The Air Line Pilots Association said it is not commenting on the deal.
They and the other labor groups await details of the pension termination agreement in a court filing expected this week.
"Right now, everybody's in scramble mode to figure out what's going on," Prisco said.
Retired United pilot Tom Hudgens, who lives in Cherry Hills Village, said that without pensions, pilots will have to make an adjustment in their lifestyles.
"United was good to me. I enjoyed working for them. They were a great company back then," said Hudgens, who retired in 1981. "I'm very disappointed. I thought they would be out of bankruptcy by now."
The agreement involves United's pledging as much as $1.5 billion in notes to the pension insurance agency in exchange for taking on the pension liability.
One set of notes would be convertible to equity - perhaps giving the agency partial ownership in the airline.
The pension agency would provide basic pension benefits to the United workers in place of their company pension. This would mean a reduction in benefits for thousands of workers.
Staff writer Kelly Yamanouchi can be reached at 303-820-1488 or kyamanouchi@denverpost.com.
Sent By: 4.253.67.92
United's unions vow to fight pension cuts
By kyamanouchi@denverpost.com
Kelly Yamanouchi
Denver Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 26, 2005 -
United Airlines employees could soon see the end of comfortable pension benefits.
But some union leaders will fight the move.
United, which has 6,000 employees in Denver, struck a deal last week with the U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. to terminate all four of its employee pension plans.
The company said the agreement - which could give the agency partial ownership in the airline - brings it closer to getting out of bankruptcy.
From the perspective of the Association of Flight Attendants, "this is far from over," said spokeswoman Sara Nelson Dela Cruz. "We are exhausting every legal option with fighting this, and if necessary, we'll strike. ... United is making an end run around our right to due process."
Some flight attendants won't be able to retire early from their physically taxing jobs if they lose their pensions, said Jody Weant, local head of the flight attendants union. And other flight attendants could quit if the deal goes through, she said.
Joseph Prisco, president of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association Local 9, said the mechanics union hasn't agreed to relinquish its pension plan yet.
"There's still an item in our contract that says they have to give us our pension," Prisco said. He said the union can continue negotiations for a deal that members could ratify. But if they can't, "then the membership is going to want to strike."
United believes a strike would be illegal.
To that, Prisco said, "Sometimes you don't have to ask permission to be mad."
The International Association of Machinists, which called the deal between United and the pension agency a "sellout," also said it is prepared to strike if pension issues are not resolved to its members' satisfaction.
The Air Line Pilots Association said it is not commenting on the deal.
They and the other labor groups await details of the pension termination agreement in a court filing expected this week.
"Right now, everybody's in scramble mode to figure out what's going on," Prisco said.
Retired United pilot Tom Hudgens, who lives in Cherry Hills Village, said that without pensions, pilots will have to make an adjustment in their lifestyles.
"United was good to me. I enjoyed working for them. They were a great company back then," said Hudgens, who retired in 1981. "I'm very disappointed. I thought they would be out of bankruptcy by now."
The agreement involves United's pledging as much as $1.5 billion in notes to the pension insurance agency in exchange for taking on the pension liability.
One set of notes would be convertible to equity - perhaps giving the agency partial ownership in the airline.
The pension agency would provide basic pension benefits to the United workers in place of their company pension. This would mean a reduction in benefits for thousands of workers.
Staff writer Kelly Yamanouchi can be reached at 303-820-1488 or kyamanouchi@denverpost.com.
Sent By: 4.253.67.92
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
To All,
Every UA employee on this forum knows that a strike by any group at this point in our BK prcoess is the end of UAL.
So for those of you from other airlines who come here trying to fan the flames, please realize that we know your game, and you're wasting your time.
Yes there will be strike talks, and strike votes, and posturing, and tough talk. But everyone knows what's at stake. Everyone understands union politics. In the end people will reluctantly find some middle ground.
Efforts by you non-UAL people to push UAL over the cliff by advocating a job action will only solidify this group to push you right back into oblivion.
Every UA employee on this forum knows that a strike by any group at this point in our BK prcoess is the end of UAL.
So for those of you from other airlines who come here trying to fan the flames, please realize that we know your game, and you're wasting your time.
Yes there will be strike talks, and strike votes, and posturing, and tough talk. But everyone knows what's at stake. Everyone understands union politics. In the end people will reluctantly find some middle ground.
Efforts by you non-UAL people to push UAL over the cliff by advocating a job action will only solidify this group to push you right back into oblivion.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
aafsc said:
Please give me an example of AMFA chest thumping without following through!
To date, AMFA has been the 'ONLY' UNION to make a stand!!!
The rest of 'YOU ALL' have been 'BLOW'!!!
B) UT
DCT JVL
Advanced
- Oct 7, 2002
- 115
- 0
Borescope said:We'll see how has the cajons
http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompa...29179146_newsml
[post="265544"][/post]
FYI, cajon means box (or, more accurately. a trunk for storing things, like a footlocker). I think cojones is the word you were looking for, unless you were wondering if the AFA was full of boxes.
goingboeing
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 584
- 1
767jetz said:
Wake up because you must be dreaming!
UAL is not going to push anybody into oblivion!
UAL cannot even exit chapter 11 much less take out their competetion.
The only way you are still in business is hiding behind the BK Judge's robe.
It is pathetic that UAL is still in chapter 11 after 3 years. UAL might as well stay there forever because this is the only way you will be able to compete in today's airline business.
Back to the original topic at hand.I do not care whether or not UAL employees strike because every employee has to live with the decisions that you make.It is your choice and not the choice of employees of other airlines.
jimntx
Veteran
No, that is not correct. It's not exactly wrong either. It depends upon how close the f/a was to retirement at the time the PBGC takes over.
If near retirement age AND retirement years, the difference between the UAL pension and the PBGC pension is negligible--as long as the pension due is less than $46,500/yr. I think that is the correct maximum. It may be a few thousand dollars/yr less. A pilot, for instance, will be badly hurt on his/her pension. Most f/as would never draw a pension larger than or even equal to that.
However, if the f/a has 10 or more years before retirement, he/she will get substantially less upon retirement because the annuity is "frozen" at the point that PBGC takes over and the f/a draws the pension that they would have drawn if they were age 60 at the time of takeover. (There will be a slight increase over time due to the interest accrued from takeover to actual retirement.)
Because most defined benefit plans are based upon best x of last y years--at AA, it is best 4 of last 10--a number of the accounts will be frozen at less than top of scale wages resulting in a much smaller payout. Traditionally, the "loading" of a DB annuity has occurred at the end of the worker's career because the assumption is those are the years of highest earning thus resulting in the maximum pension amount.
I have a friend who worked for a company whose pensions were taken over by the PBGC. Even though she put in over 20 years at the company, because she was under age 50 at the time of takeover, her "pension" from the PBGC when she reaches retirement age will be less than $100/mo.
If near retirement age AND retirement years, the difference between the UAL pension and the PBGC pension is negligible--as long as the pension due is less than $46,500/yr. I think that is the correct maximum. It may be a few thousand dollars/yr less. A pilot, for instance, will be badly hurt on his/her pension. Most f/as would never draw a pension larger than or even equal to that.
However, if the f/a has 10 or more years before retirement, he/she will get substantially less upon retirement because the annuity is "frozen" at the point that PBGC takes over and the f/a draws the pension that they would have drawn if they were age 60 at the time of takeover. (There will be a slight increase over time due to the interest accrued from takeover to actual retirement.)
Because most defined benefit plans are based upon best x of last y years--at AA, it is best 4 of last 10--a number of the accounts will be frozen at less than top of scale wages resulting in a much smaller payout. Traditionally, the "loading" of a DB annuity has occurred at the end of the worker's career because the assumption is those are the years of highest earning thus resulting in the maximum pension amount.
I have a friend who worked for a company whose pensions were taken over by the PBGC. Even though she put in over 20 years at the company, because she was under age 50 at the time of takeover, her "pension" from the PBGC when she reaches retirement age will be less than $100/mo.
TheDog2004
Senior
- Mar 26, 2004
- 267
- 0
I wish y'all would hurry up and get on with it. UAL needs to either emerge or die. It's been long enough.
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