TWU Jim Little: I have saved the membersd from themselves!

[Buck]

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On 4/27/2003 4:56:56 PM Checking it Out wrote:

RV4 You are attempting to decieve!
AA 17.5% = Base Pay
UA 13% = Total Pay


The Rest equals 2 Bases unlimited farmout of Heavy Work and 6000 Jobs and if they reject the T/A no Union representation!

We are still making more than the average AMT in the USA
Average Pay is $25.50 per Hour with 401k Retirement!

Full pay to the last day! Is this your Slogan? Pathetic it is!

I Voted! Apparently you did not!

BK is definitly worse! Thank goodness we have the Smarts not to listened to the few like UA AMT''s did! Just think if it was not for amfa! UA would have better pay and more jobs!


TWU Solidarity 2003!



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And what about the A&P mechanic that is destined to the OSM shop and the loss of his/her license premiums? This on average is a drop in pay of 38% plus benefits. You advocate a wage of $25.50 an hour with 401k? What does 401k have to do with anything? It has nothing to do with our wages. And what about those A&P mechanics that work in more expensive areas of the country? It is hard enough to stomach the wage cut here, but you are dividing the line stations from the base maintenance with your socialist tactics.

 

[RV4]

And now the debate degrades and goes personal. Sign of weakness.

I believe the real supreme authority might show up soon. I say bring it on.

Nothing more really needs to be said.

Except for one thing....

"STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES!"
Forest Gump

 

[Checking it Out]

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On 4/26/2003 712 PM RV4 wrote:


It appears to me that each employee traded:

4.5 % in Pay (Difference at United) **Minus 17.5% AA vs. Minus 13% UAL**
5 Paid Holidays (Not at United)
5 Vacation days (Not at United)
50% Sick Leave Pay (Not at United)
7 Sick Days per Year from the Bank (Not at United)
7 Day Labor Loans (Not at United)
Unlimited Weekend Coverage 4/10s (Weekend Coverage Only Limted in 5 Day Schedules)
Overtime Pay 2.5X (Not at United)
Loss of Shift Premium (Not at United)
Loss of Longevity Pay (Not at United)

Checking it Out - Feel Free to Prove the above facts "Dont Hold Water"?

In exchange for 3000 Jobs??? What is the dollar value of each head saved? I do not know the dollar value per head but I do know the price. We just sacrificed the entire profession, and it was too damn expensive per head.

When I look at a United Employees cost for medical per paycheck, Im find that I am already paying what their concession has and now we will be paying even more.

Checking it Out IS WRONG, there is a tremendous difference in the concession packages and ours is BY FAR WORSE!

At least they get to vote. Instead we have a dictator that saved us from ourselves.

AND UNITED IS IN BANKRUPTCY FOR CHRIST SAKE! SHOW ME WHERE THEY HAVE IT WORSE?


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RV4 You are attempting to decieve!
AA 17.5% = Base Pay
UA 13% = Total Pay


The Rest equals 2 Bases unlimited farmout of Heavy Work and 6000 Jobs and if they reject the T/A no Union representation!

We are still making more than the average AMT in the USA
Average Pay is $25.50 per Hour with 401k Retirement!

Full pay to the last day! Is this your Slogan? Pathetic it is!

I Voted! Apparently you did not!

BK is definitly worse! Thank goodness we have the Smarts not to listened to the few like UA AMT''s did! Just think if it was not for amfa! UA would have better pay and more jobs!


TWU Solidarity 2003!

 

[Checking it Out]

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On 4/26/2003 1:49:12 PM MADAMT wrote:


To Answer your first statement, yes the term is shorter by 8 months, but if you are hanging your hat on the 2006 section six openers, read it carefully and completly. The contract states that they can be opened but the amendable date is still April 2008, so either party can file openers but the date stays in effect till 2008. Do you really think the company will open early in 2006 and give up the savings they achieved in this agreement?Are you relying on their sense of fair play and their benevolance?This Company has shown nothing but contempt for its work force and Carty going did not stave that mindset. Arpy and the rest were cognicent of what was happening and endorsed it.

As for the United agreement, look at what was given up, other than pay and the base closing the rest has stayed the same. Contracting out ratio is the same before and after, the work rules in regard to Holidays sicktime and such stayed the same.

Its not that at AA the pay was decreased, that is a realization that would have occured in or out ok BK, its the other benefits that have been impacted. If we just look at the pay we are delusional and niave, the loss of holidays and benefits drives up the cost per head, you need to look at the total package not just the 17.5 % pay cut.
At AA the contracting out ratio was not even discussed we traded Monies for nothing except the illusion of keeping jobs.

I live in the northeast, have a family of 4 to support and the cost of living here is high, in either senario I am forced to go out and take on a second job. I worked two full time jobs for 11 years and finally gave it up with the last contract, by accepting this proposal and the totality of the complete package when all is considered is unacceptable.

Sure I might have to supplement my income again, but not to the entent I must now.


Each and everyone one of us have different circumstances and agendas and must make decisons based on that. For me accepting this proposal was wrong and goes aganist what Unionism means.

You speak of change, what change elaborate on this please.

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Mad AMT;

I work in Tulsa, We are looking at NW, UA, CA, SW and several others farming out their Heavy Maintenance to Companies overseas, Timco and several others FBO''s! The average pay for an AMT is $48,500 per year with 10 years at the Company and no retirement! Most of the aviation related Companies around here are laying off!

We are fighting for our lives to stay with AA! Their is no Gurantees in todays environment!. All we can do is attempt to help AA survive. It is difficult with Management always working against Us. It seems they have no common sense and lack of loyalty! So all I can do is believe we are doing the right thing in believing in our leadership and the professionals that we hire to give us advice!

Their are outside entities and Management that continue to deceiving and give half truths. I see the damage that has happened at other airlines and all I can do is try and stop the Bad. It would be nice some Individuals would get Informed and see the Injustice that is being done to our Profession! Maybe the AFL-CIO seen this years age and combined the Unions to help aliviate this anger that amfa continues to breed! They have NW but do they still have unrest? Has anything changed other than massive Layoffs?

TWU SOLIDARITY! 2003

 

[Buck]

I would be careful of accusing anyone of anything whether it is true or not. I am not an angel, but I do know of incidents over the years. One involving the falsification of drug tests and an officer that was involved. Be careful when you accuse.........

 

[Checking it Out]

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On 4/26/2003 2:58:15 PM RV4 wrote:

​

Why would AA seek a change in the TWU Scope Clause? They outsource everything they want now.

I believe we are still working all the Airplanes AA is flying!

You are so desperate for facts to defend your ILC Industry Leading Concession you are using United which is not voted on yet, or do you have information that their so-called union leadership is going to approve without a credible vote like yours did?

Will United still have a UNION? Only time will tell!

Uniteds T/A does NOT have OSM payrates, In fact, no other airline has the OSM payrate, Uniteds T/A does NOT have vacation reduction. Uniteds T/A does have Holiday removal, Uniteds T/A does NOT have 50% Sick Leave pay, Uniteds T/A does not strip members of License Pay.

OSM parity is TIMCO''s in todays world. $41,100 (19.75 an hour) OSMs still make above average in wages! The AMT''s are well above the National average!

And Northwest has nothing to vote on. Of course now that your ILC is in place, the pressure is on everyone else in the industry to concede also. Thus the TERM:

They will or they will not have a Job! amfa lacks the funds to represent them fairly and have proven in the past they run from their obligations in Bankruptcy! which airline did this happen too last?

When you say "work smarter" do you mean fire union officers who have someone else clock them in when they fail to show for work? Do mean get a members job back who sleeps on the job? Do you mean get the Safety Officer his job after being caught looking at Porn on company time and computers? Do you mean get a union representatives job back when he sells AA stolen property on E-Bay?

I will take this as lack of being Informed! I do not believe we have any officers currently that has done this clock thing! I believe rv4 you were Instrumental in getting your Supervisor fired and the Membership made sure you did not hold office at one time in the TWU! How many times has the TWU saved your job? I can remember a Radiation badge Incident you had at one time!

Let''s POLL the members with credible vote.

"DO YOU FAVOR HIGHER PAY AND BENEFITS OR MORE JOBS"?

I favor preserving jobs for our Brothers and Sisters can come back with more options! We are already making above the national average.

amfa is Airlines Managements Favority Union. They have no money and like to allow them to keep constant turmoil in the work environment! Helps to look the other way when they violate the Contract.

Thanks for your Time! TWU SOLIDARITY! 2003
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[RV4]

Checking it Out can begin telling the over 3000 jobs the TWU saved next week how to apply for unemployment, how they lost their furlough medical benefits, and how the TWU is the greatest.

I wonder if that worker will still believe the TWU lies?

 

[aapitbull]

.




They have NW but do they still have unrest? Has anything changed other than massive Layoffs?

TWU SOLIDARITY! 2003




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Here you go again telling half truths you say unrest I do not see a IAM or TWU card drive going on at any of the airlines that AMFA represents. You say southwest is farming out work this is not true they are bringing work in house.

You talk about massive layoffs but you fail to point out they are under force majuere I posted this article on another thread in response to your lies and you failed to respond to it only to come to a new thread and misrepresent the facts again.


CIO this is part of a dow jones business article date Fri Mar 21st 2003 it and others like it can be found at http://biz.yahoo.com/news/airlines
then search nwac archives

This plainly show the layoffs are due to force majeure which as you already know is completely out of the unions control so stop trying to deflect the travesty the TWU has brought on the industry on to a union that is attempting to hold the line.

The cuts include 2,000 mechanics, 1,400 flight attendants, 630 baggage handlers and customer service agents, 250 pilots, 125 cleaners, 40 stock clerks and 300 management and 150 clerical positions, said Paul Volker, legislative officer for the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association Local 33.

"Clearly, the last two years have been a difficult and painful period for our employees," said Chief Executive Richard Anderson. "Due to the weak demand for business travel which emerged in March 2001, the subsequent impact of the terrorist attacks on the United States in September of that year, and now, armed conflict with Iraq, we have been forced to reduce our work force by some 17,000 employee positions." There will be about 39,000 workers left after the latest round of job cuts are completed.

Mr. Volker said Northwest officials told his union''s leaders earlier Friday that the airline intended to invoke the "force majeure" clauses in its labor contracts. That is the legal term for uncontrollable events that release parties from their contractual obligations. In Northwest''s case, it frees the carrier from union-negotiated agreements related to seniority and work-rules stipulations that can make it difficult to cut jobs.

Analysts said earlier this week that the war could give airlines reason to cut costs via the force majeure clause, which they used after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Most of the major carriers are suffering under excessive labor expenses, poor economic conditions and the decrease in spending by business travelers!!!


The TWU told the OSM''s that AMFA would not represent them yet the TWU lifted the job protection clause so they can be laid off while the mechanic''s at MCI keep their jobs tell us some more truth about how you saved jobs in TULSA.

I for one do not want to see jobs lost in Tul or MCI but to constantly lie and misrepresent the facts as you and the TWU do is shameful!!!

 

[aapitbull]

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On 4/27/2003 550 PM Checking it Out wrote:


amfa is Airlines Managements Favority Union. They have no money and like to allow them to keep constant turmoil in the work environment! Helps to look the other way when they violate the Contract.

Thanks for your Time! TWU SOLIDARITY! 2003​

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The thing I find most interesting in this quote is while AMFA has continued to organize airline after airline some non union others represented by IAM,TWU and IBT it''s only the paid supporters of the TWU that seem to know the truth about AMFA. All the rest of us are just mistaken, you would have us believe the TWU is the superior union yet they have lead the industry in concessions for twenty years.

This is B/S and anyone who is paying attention knows it. The time has come to leave this worthless union if we separate from the the fleet service and stock clerks now the chance of actually getting are contract open in three years goes up considerably.

You say solidarity I say with who even the TWU admits the line stations have been taken over by AMFA supporters?

 

[Buck]

Can anyone explain why the A&P mechanic wages have failed to keep up even with inflation, under the leadership of the TWU?

 

[RV4]

Who has lowered wages more?

The National Right ot Work Committee

or

The Transport Workers Union of America

 

[Boomer]

CIO,
You admit that you are not ignorant, however, that only leaves one other option.

Please answer my earlier assertion: Does the Contract Jim Little illegaly voided contain language stating that the Company is obligated for the preponderance of the work to be performed by AA TWU Maintenance & Related workers and does that Contract further stipulate that Nothing Guarantees the Volume of work to be performed?

Before you state that the membership approved the Contract: do you remember a letter from Jim Little to a Mr. Kloop at AFW in which he said that the Presidents Council had failed to approve the Kloop Motion for all letters of Agreement to be approved by the Membership?

Little, in the Kloop letter, stated that any agreement which had the effect of changing the pay, hours of work and working conditions constituted a Major Dispute under the RLA and would therefore have to be approved by the Membership and that he would not authorize such a change?

The facts are that the substance of the Negotiations changed materially between the time that an agreement was reached and voted on VERSUS the Little letter halting Ratification, calling for re-Ratification of the Negotiated Agreement, and, subsequently evolving into the deal currently being forced upon the Maintenance & Related Contract Group.

The pay, hours of work and working conditions were altered by the acceptance of subsequent negotiated items by Little without ratification by the Maintenance & Related Negotiating Team violating his earlier letter and the TWU Constitution.

Please answer the questions.

 

[RV4]

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On 4/27/2003 745 PM Buck wrote:

Can anyone explain why the A&P mechanic wages have failed to keep up even with inflation, under the leadership of the TWU?

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Because SQ695 passed in Oklahoma and lowered wages?

Hmm, that explains the current concession, not sure about the last 20 years?

 

[RV4]

For a short period, I was wondering why AA did not invoke the "Force Manure" clause in our contract. It is now clear that AA had personal knowledge of a willingness by James C. Little to sell us all out.

It amazing how narrow minded some cna be not to add up the cost of lost time off owrk to be with our family. Not only did James C. Little commit a serious injustice to the members of his union, he also sacrificed the families of these workers.

The TWU has clearly sold out the OSM''s, they will be laid off "OUT OF SENIORITY" by the time the Little Letter is fully implemented.

I am sorry CIO, but no matter how one looks at this Industry Leading Concession, they will never succeed in calling it "the right thing".

TWU Leadership should be jailed for theft of two hours pay per month of the working man!

One thing the TWU did not lie about. They made it perfectly clear that if Right-to-Work passed in Oklahoma that wages would be lowered. The TWU did fail to make it clear that they would lead the charge to lower them once is passed!

Dont Lower Wages - Vote NO on SQ695​

 

[Buck]

By conducting a "Roll Call" vote, Randy McDonald and the TWU Local 514 have not only lost the Right To Work battle in Oklahoma, they have enabled the same thing nation wide for the mechanics. Don't Lower Wages? That is not entirely correct, it is wages and benefits.

Maybe the National Right To Work committee can create a plaque for Randy and his cronies?


Right To Work Randy