TWU Jim Little: I have saved the membersd from themselves!

[Checking it Out]

Boy! Did I hit a Nerve! 11 posts since I signed off.

Talk about Half Truths, Implying amfa was not at fault for being unable to limit layoffs at NW.

Implying Officers tainting Drug teats. I believe the poster may be the cause.

4500 + jobs lost at NW caused by fource Majoure. If this is true How come the Union was not able to stop this? NW is still Farming out Heavy Maint. Is AA ?

The Truth comes out from aapitbull! Farm out all the work except A&P License Mechanics. Sell out the rest.

CPI is misleading. Several sources has showed charts the average Aviation Employee is staying ahead of Inflation!

How did Jim Little void out (Contract on Work)? I have seen nothing in what we agreed on changing the Language?

Looks to me the Contract was change in Structure and did not changed the items you claim! How was the pay, Hours of Work, and Working Conditions changed? I believe we voted on these Items.

How Did Jim Little sell us out? You Imply you did not vote? Kind of mis-Leading.

Bring in SQ695, I Believe the TWU and others are still fighting this in court. Where was your union? you apparently support! Oh yes! Thats right, they do not believe in Politics!

Yea I believe Randy does believe we all have a right to work. That is why he believes in saving jobs! Apparently you do not! Farm out the work that is what you believe! Time and Time again this has been proven . I believe by not signing a card is proof we do not want the Airlines Management Favorite Association!

The TWU has done a great job along withn the other Great Unions at AA! They all believe in saving AA. Unlike a few!

Keep up the Great Job all You Brothers and Sisters at AA!

TWU SOLIDARITY! 2003

 

[MADAMT]

To Checking it Out;

Your view of Unionism is certainly different then mine. Unionism is for the Betterment of wages and benefits, not the prote0ction of jobs. I no more want to see anyone lose their jobs in a RIF, than I think we should sholder the costs of mismanagement. If we would have taken the lay offs, at least the people would have come back to a decent wage with benefits.

Providing jobs is the function of Corpporations and government, not the Unions, show me the portion of the TWU constitution where it states it objective is to provide or insure jobs. Thier own constitution states that it job is to provide for the betterment of wages and benefits thru collective bargaining. Even the junior personnel in the northeast understand the guiding princicples of unionism, and felt that a layoff was better then this. The total package when looked at is worse than what UA bargained for in BK. Yes they allowed layoffs and base closure, but the remaining people maintained their benefits, and a much lower paycut.

 

[Buck]

Implying Officers tainting Drug teats. I believe the poster may be the cause.

"One involving the falsification of drug tests and an officer that was involved."

I believe you need to learn to read. I never said any officers tainted anything. I said this person was involved. When an officer of the TWU and other members are shooting up [color=" #cc3300"]methamphetamines and is involved in getting the "brother" terminated, then I question his judgement.[/color]

CPI is misleading. Several sources has showed charts the average Aviation Employee is staying ahead of Inflation!

Could reveal these sources so that the readers have something to see?
​

 

[RV4]

The lies come back to haunt the TWU.

One of the lies told by the TWU is that if we go AMFA, we will be without a contract.

Interesting enough is how many now want to sign AMFA cards to RID THEMSELVES of the TWU sellout. The lie told now actually becomes a desired solution! Imagine that!

Checking it Out,

Tell us about the L.L. Dean grievance and how the TWU secretly screwed over 150 members out of seniority. At least that fool of an Officer has not been re-elected since. But what about today? Lay off the TWU represented OSM's by lifting job protection while allowing AA to keep the MCI TWA bunch who had NO PROTECTION to begin with?

I will admit I was in favor of dovetail from the start of the acquisition process and the outcome would have been the same. The difference is, the TWU LIED and misled the OSM's about how they would be protected.

The TWU told the OSM's that if AMFA got on the property, they would be out on the street, and now what happens to them at the hands of the TWU? Can you say "out of seniority" and out on the street?

SIGN THOSE CARDS AND REMOVE THE DICTATORS!

 

[RV4]

The Silence tell us alot!

Why don''t you retire CIO?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/26/2003 9:18:51 AM Checking it Out wrote:

Their is a fundamental difference between the TWU and amfa. The TWU belives in representing everyone. amfa believes in only the skilled with A and P licenses. Where does that leave you!

Thanks for your Time! TWU Solidarity, 2003​

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​

Tell me how the TWU represents those of us in the high cost areas? Is it reasonable for us to be forced to accept pay cuts that will force us out of the industry to protect your job? If as the company said repeatedly during negotiations that "SWA does not have overhaul" is the reason why we had to take these massive cuts is it right that we should suffer disproportionately when our job is not the one that is being threatened? Basically what it boils down to is that line guys are taking a $20,000 a year paycut to save overhaul workers jobs. What do we get in return? Nothing. It would not be so bad if at least we were left with a reasonable standard of living to protect other workers but the real insult comes when these same people who basically caused your career hopes to vanish by voting in this POS then have such an arrogant attitude and then have the nerve to lecture others about "unionism". "An injury to one is an injury to all" is an accepted union slogan. The slogan for you guys is "I got mine, and yours too".

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/26/2003 712 PM RV4 wrote:


It appears to me that each employee traded:

4.5 % in Pay (Difference at United) **Minus 17.5% AA vs. Minus 13% UAL**
5 Paid Holidays (Not at United)
5 Vacation days (Not at United)
50% Sick Leave Pay (Not at United)
7 Sick Days per Year from the Bank (Not at United)
7 Day Labor Loans (Not at United)
Unlimited Weekend Coverage 4/10s (Weekend Coverage Only Limted in 5 Day Schedules)
Overtime Pay 2.5X (Not at United)
Loss of Shift Premium (Not at United)
Loss of Longevity Pay (Not at United)

Checking it Out - Feel Free to Prove the above facts "Dont Hold Water"?

In exchange for 3000 Jobs??? What is the dollar value of each head saved? I do not know the dollar value per head but I do know the price. We just sacrificed the entire profession, and it was too damn expensive per head.

When I look at a United Employees cost for medical per paycheck, Im find that I am already paying what their concession has and now we will be paying even more.

Checking it Out IS WRONG, there is a tremendous difference in the concession packages and ours is BY FAR WORSE!

At least they get to vote. Instead we have a dictator that saved us from ourselves.

AND UNITED IS IN BANKRUPTCY FOR CHRIST SAKE! SHOW ME WHERE THEY HAVE IT WORSE?


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You forgot some of the Industry Leading Concessions that these bankrupt companies still do not have like Part Time, Cross Utilization, Deicing, R&D, we were so industry leading that the other cariiers still, after 20 years have not caught up!

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/26/2003 1015 PM Boomer wrote:


Third: the position of the Maintenance Local Presidents was and has been that the Company should lay off so that the jobs remaining will be worth more when those who are laid off are returned. In fact, if you go to the Websters'' Dictionary, you will find:

Main Entry: labor union
Function: noun
Date: 1866
: an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members'' interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

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Thats right. Job creation is the duty of industry (thats why they get all those tax breaks) and the government. Job creation is not the duty of unions. While business and government work to create jobs, unions are to insure that the quality of the jobs increase, not as in our case decrease. If unions were determined to keep everyone working at ANY cost, then why support programs like Unemployment compensation? If the Union was truly trying to "preserve jobs" then why did they move the System protection back and eliminate vacation weeks? For every 50 workers that give up one wekk the company can now lay off one more additional worker. Instead of saving jobs the union gave the company the green light to throw thousands of workers on to the street while making those who remained working more hours for much less money. Werent Unions founded to prevent this sort of stuff from happening?
The "Labor movement" is dead. Welcome to Unionism Incorporated! Business Unionism is the dominant force in employee representation where the interests of the workers is dismissed in favor of the bottom line of the Union (Inc).

 

[KCFlyer]

Just curious RV4, but if the union did the "right" thing and told the airline to shrink itself instead of asking for concessions, would you still have a job?

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/28/2003 919 AM Checking it Out wrote:


NW is still Farming out Heavy Maint. Is AA ?

Why would they? Where could they get it done cheaper? Is it our "iron clad language" or simple economics that keep the work in house?

CPI is misleading. Several sources has showed charts the average Aviation Employee is staying ahead of Inflation!

Ok. Lets see what you got!

Bring in SQ695, I Believe the TWU and others are still fighting this in court. Where was your union? you apparently support! Oh yes! Thats right, they do not believe in Politics!

So they are spending dues monies to fight a law that they say will lower wages and also spending money to encourage their members to accept pay cuts. Hmm, must be some sort of Tulsa logic.


The TWU has done a great job along withn the other Great Unions at AA! They all believe in saving AA. Unlike a few!

So unions are now in the business of saving companies from their "greedy" workers. So tell me, who is out there fighting for increased wages and benifits, you know, the job that Unions used to do?


How much of a paycut is Little taking?

At the COPE Convention they were complaining about how the government wanted more detailed financial reporting. Maybe its not such a bad idea? It be interesting to find out exactly how much these guys were getting when all is said and done.



​

 

[RV4]

I am ashamed and dishonored to belong to the Local that Randy McDonald and Dale Lantz are claiming to represent. Of course without a valid vote, or even a break down of the illegitimate vote, their claim is still in question. The "destroy the profession to save jobs" mentality is not correct even if it is my job they are attempting to save. I do not favor the destruction of another to salvage myself, I am still trainable, I have skills, and I am motivated enough to do what it takes to survive.

Unfortunately, there is NO recall of Officers, there is NO accountablity, there is NO changing this problem now.

The guys on the line are fully capable of taking care of themselves. The "union" apparently needs a lesson in who the "union" really is, and what the "supreme authority" acutally means.

I will accept whatever results are required to reach this goal.

As Bob says, FULL STEAM AHEAD!

Need help with legal fees? Let me know, I am in!

 

[aapitbull]

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On 4/29/2003 8:32:49 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Just curious RV4, but if the union did the "right" thing and told the airline to shrink itself instead of asking for concessions, would you still have a job?

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I do not really see what it matters if you keep or lose your job in this debate the point is that we paid to keep jobs and if the company files for b/k in the future,all that we paid to keep will be gone and we will still have to pay the bill for 5 years.

I for one would had lost my job in b/k and will likely keep it if we avoid b/k. I would still vote no because the risk is too high, go read how we are billons in debt and may be forced into b/k by our creditors. And that is to say nothing of Sars a new terroist attack or any of dozen other things that could push over the edge!!!

You tell us would you keep or lose your job in AA b/k or are you just a person who think were overpaid and enjoy airfares at thirty year lows?

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 4/30/2003 5:57:20 AM Bob Owens wrote:

How many mechanics are going to be laid off shortly? 1300? So how were their jobs saved? When these workers do come back, if they decide to come back, they will be coming back to pay and benifit cuts. They lose double.​

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I guess this whole thread goes to illustrate why I thank my lucky stars that I don''t belong to a union. My choices are shrink the airline and be out of a job or take a pay cut and be out of a job six months later. And neither option goes over well with everybody. Oh, and hate your bosses in the rough times and do no better than distrust them in the good times, but don''t dare quit because you''ll have to work another 10 years somewhere else to make as much as you''re making now. And in growth periods, don''t sit down with managment and discuss your concerns about all the new hires...just insure that those new hires get "industry leading" pay. Then, when rough times hit, talk about what a bunch of bonehead managment you''ve got and how they should have known better than to hire all these new people...nevermind that you''ve got it contractually stipulated that a welder can''t hand a mechanic a wrench. And you get to pay monthly dues for this privlege.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 4/29/2003 8:32:49 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Just curious RV4, but if the union did the "right" thing and told the airline to shrink itself instead of asking for concessions, would you still have a job?

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How many mechanics are going to be laid off shortly? 1300? So how were their jobs saved? When these workers do come back, if they decide to come back, they will be coming back to pay and benifit cuts. They lose double.

 

[RV4]

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On 4/29/2003 8:32:49 PM KCFlyer wrote:


Just curious RV4, but if the union did the "right" thing and told the airline to shrink itself instead of asking for concessions, would you still have a job?

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I dont know! Does that matter?