Twu E-board And Member Support?

[Steve Connell]

To think a guy like the self proclaimed great union man Steve Connell supports idiots like CIO. Steve saying is "if I can't be company, at least I can be company-union"



Amfaboy, I would have expected no less from you and your idiotic postings. I am this , I am a here to eke an existence, to raise my kids and go through life with as smooth a road as I can lay. I agree with CIO on as much as his postings are TWU related. I am currently a member of the TWU, Local 530, not amfa. I am earning a liveable wage, not unemployed. I have benefits other than COBRA, that is good for me and my family currently, and until this industry turns around I will continue to do what I feel necessary to feed the ones I care about, and not to lose any sleep over what someone like you thinks about me and my selections in life.

Super...this guy was not telling me of emminent personal attacks, but telling another employee how I ought to be watching my back against the amfa boys as I "don't know who I'm messing with". That I take personal and above and beyond standing up for your beliefs. You intimidate my family all rules are thron aside, I think everyone here would agree, what I am stating is this, it's a shame this drive of yours has led to this, and it's not over yet, I have not received satisfaction.

And I agree Super that on both sides there are people that seek violence or confrontation. This is always going to be a fact with thousands of employees involved, what they , the ones wanting the confrontation, need to do is go head to head , not threaten from behind, but face me and others toe to toe, OR, keep their desires hidden and stop being a disgrace to both parties.

 

[Bob Owens]

Rum, The Majority of the members who voted choose to accepted the contract as presented. That is Majority Rule. Get over it and work on changing the issues in 2006. Having a decient paying job is better than building decks as a profession.

If we all work at putting suggestions forward for our next contract talks and stand-up and fight than we will achieve our goals.

The real enemy here is the companies and amfa allowing the increase in farm-outs. This allows an abundance of qualified workers to do the jobs at third party Maintenance. Which equates to more job losses. for cheaper wages.

The Membership at AA understand the damage that has been done and know AA will farm-out the work if we do not go with the changes coming in the Industry. That is common sense. No one likes it, but it's the truth!

So its the members fault.

And what were the options and the plan if the members rejected the contract that the TWU in no uncertain terms recommended that we accept?


When you say "fight", who do you mean for us to "fight"? The union or the company? Could you be a little more specific in what you mean by "fight".

It seems to me that our pay went to $35/hr thanks to AMFA. I've never heard of AMFA promoting outsourcing, something that AA has been doing at one of the highest rates in the industry for years but I did hear the TWU promote giving industry leading concessions that lowered our working condition below many non-union workers. I dont know any full time job that only offers one week of vacation a year besides AA.

Who has lower maintenance costs per RPM, AA or NWA?

If AA is the enemy then how come you supported giving them "Industry Leading Concessions"?

What are the changes? Farming out or low wages? Are you saying that the TWU can do nothing to influence what happens?

In one sentence you are saying to fight, in the other you are saying that the changes are inevitable. So what are you saying, fight the inevitable, and that is what you are saying is "Common Sense"?

If so, then maybe its time we get a new union.

 

[Steve Connell]

Bob, I believe you can go through as many unions as you like but you will not change the floor that makes up the power of the intact union. Though NWA has changed the floor somewhat.

And perhaps enemy is to strong a word for the unions or the company. Everyone here has the ability, including myself, to leave this company (enemy) but yet we stay because we are doing what we know, working on aircraft. I guess calling the companies of the US "smiling dogs" would be a better simile.

My pay went to $35 when AA purchased TWA, or at least sometime after that. amfa was not in picture, they were simply the first to attain the wage in our industry, we were headed there regardless, or do we want to give credit to unions singularly for each benefit given? If so , I believe NWA has a few awards for amfa.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, I believe you can go through as many unions as you like but you will not change the floor that makes up the power of the intact union. Though NWA has changed the floor somewhat.

And perhaps enemy is to strong a word for the unions or the company. Everyone here has the ability, including myself, to leave this company (enemy) but yet we stay because we are doing what we know, working on aircraft. I guess calling the companies of the US "smiling dogs" would be a better simile.

My pay went to $35 when AA purchased TWA, or at least sometime after that. amfa was not in picture, they were simply the first to attain the wage in our industry, we were headed there regardless, or do we want to give credit to unions singularly for each benefit given? If so , I believe NWA has a few awards for amfa.

I agree that the strength of the union is the members, however the leadership of and structure of the representational organization can either strengthen that power by focusing it or weaken it the way the TWU does. Like a lens does with light. The TWU leaves us with a blurred image, they have no clear strategy, and the only way to correct it is to replace it.

The fact is that the IAM brought back $29 and said that was the best they could do, the mechanics there replaced them with AMFA who was shooting for $40 but was impeded by a PEB.

How do you account for the fact that of all the workgroups in the TWU the mechanics saw the biggest increase? To deny that having the mechanics at AMFA seperate from the IAM and go AMFA was directly responsible for the disparaty is folly. Do you think for a moment if the mechanics had accepted the IAMs deal that we would have ever saw $35 per hour? The fact is that our sellout TWU not only brought our wages right inline with the 20 year downward trend for mechanics wages but they thew in EVERY other concession that the company ever asked for save one- company paid UBP for Presidents.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Steve, tell me another craft union that is democratic that wants to protect the profession of the AMT OTHER than AMFA. Can't? OK, until then we will change to AMFA. As far as leaving the industry, why? Sure things have gotten pretty shitty because of inept industrial unions but why not fight to make things better? Things will not get better with the twu/iam/ibt.

 

[Superside]

The real enemy here is the companies and amfa allowing the increase in farm-outs. This allows an abundance of qualified workers to do the jobs at third party Maintenance. Which equates to more job losses. for cheaper wages.

The Membership at AA understand the damage that has been done and know AA will farm-out the work if we do not go with the changes coming in the Industry. That is common sense. No one likes it, but it's the truth!

CIO, you need to take a walk around in the south end of the Turbine building.
Where there used to be landing gear parts waiting in the main aisle, now there is lots of room to walk by.
The bake shop used to be so crowed with parts, shifts coming on and going home had to step aside for one another.
The weld shop used to have frames and other work stacked 3 deep on pallets, a maze to walk through, empty floor space now.
Plating shop used to be backed up. Now very few parts large and small wait to be taken care of.
In the Hydraulic shop MD 80 engine driven pumps used to fill the shelves, (over 30 pumps) as of friday, 2, yes just 2 pumps on the shelf.

Tell Me AA has'nt Farmed this stuff out! Tell Me TWU is protecting jobs. Don't forget to mention the "IRON CLAD LANGUAGE" in or scope that keeps work in House.
You continue to blame AMFA for the farm out at NW, and you know it started under the IAM about 8 years ago.

 

[Bob Owens]

The real enemy here is the companies and amfa allowing the increase in farm-outs. This allows an abundance of qualified workers to do the jobs at third party Maintenance. Which equates to more job losses. for cheaper wages.

The Membership at AA understand the damage that has been done and know AA will farm-out the work if we do not go with the changes coming in the Industry. That is common sense. No one likes it, but it's the truth!

CIO, you need to take a walk around in the south end of the Turbine building.
Where there used to be landing gear parts waiting in the main aisle, now there is lots of room to walk by.
The bake shop used to be so crowed with parts, shifts coming on and going home had to step aside for one another.
The weld shop used to have frames and other work stacked 3 deep on pallets, a maze to walk through, empty floor space now.
Plating shop used to be backed up. Now very few parts large and small wait to be taken care of.
In the Hydraulic shop MD 80 engine driven pumps used to fill the shelves, (over 30 pumps) as of friday, 2, yes just 2 pumps on the shelf.

Tell Me AA has'nt Farmed this stuff out! Tell Me TWU is protecting jobs. Don't forget to mention the "IRON CLAD LANGUAGE" in or scope that keeps work in House.
You continue to blame AMFA for the farm out at NW, and you know it started under the IAM about 8 years ago.

What CIO also leaves out is that the primary source of pressure to farm out is from the AA/TWU contracts that not only allow the work to go out but also started a new class of low paid mechanics called SRPs, later changed to OSMs. Outsourced labor prices in house.

This gave AA a competative edge as far as costs over other carriers. Other
carriers who could not get their unions to sell out the profession like the TWU were forced to at least get AAs ability to outsource.

AA always had the most leeway as far as outsourcing. The outsoucing letter of agreement at AA goes all the way back to CR Smith!

In order for AA to keep the work in house they have to show that they can do it cheaper. Is this what we pay three hours net pay per month for? We pay for the right to work for less? Couldnt we get that right for free?

The fact is this union advocates lower wages. They have been doing this for over 20 years. The "arrangement" they have with variuos companies is "you keep the dues flowing and we will keep the wages low". Just look at AA, SWA, Swissport, and scores of other TWU contracts. They all offer the employer the best terms out there. Its time we gave them the boot and get a union that will fight for us and not dig all over the place for reasons why we should work for less. Let the company do that.

 

[Superside]

The outsoucing letter of agreement at AA goes all the way back to CR Smith!
In order for AA to keep the work in house they have to show that they can do it cheaper. Is this what we pay three hours net pay per month for? We pay for the right to work for less? Couldnt we get that right for free?

The fact is this union advocates lower wages. They have been doing this for over 20 years. The "arrangement" they have with variuos companies is "you keep the dues flowing and we will keep the wages low". Just look at AA, SWA, Swissport, and scores of other TWU contracts. They all offer the employer the best terms out there. Its time we gave them the boot and get a union that will fight for us and not dig all over the place for reasons why we should work for less. Let the company do that.

Wait a minute..." Letters of Agreement"... TWU membership doen't get to vote on "Letters or Agreement" !!! AMFA Membership does!!!

 

[Checking it Out]

The real enemy here is the companies and amfa allowing the increase in farm-outs. This allows an abundance of qualified workers to do the jobs at third party Maintenance. Which equates to more job losses. for cheaper wages.

The Membership at AA understand the damage that has been done and know AA will farm-out the work if we do not go with the changes coming in the Industry. That is common sense. No one likes it, but it's the truth!

CIO, you need to take a walk around in the south end of the Turbine building.
Where there used to be landing gear parts waiting in the main aisle, now there is lots of room to walk by.
The bake shop used to be so crowed with parts, shifts coming on and going home had to step aside for one another.
The weld shop used to have frames and other work stacked 3 deep on pallets, a maze to walk through, empty floor space now.
Plating shop used to be backed up. Now very few parts large and small wait to be taken care of.
In the Hydraulic shop MD 80 engine driven pumps used to fill the shelves, (over 30 pumps) as of friday, 2, yes just 2 pumps on the shelf.

Tell Me AA has'nt Farmed this stuff out! Tell Me TWU is protecting jobs. Don't forget to mention the "IRON CLAD LANGUAGE" in or scope that keeps work in House.
You continue to blame AMFA for the farm out at NW, and you know it started under the IAM about 8 years ago.

Superside I Believe you are smart enough to go look at the recoreds on the computer for these items to see if their is an increase in farmouts of these items or does it have to do with the docks not removing the parts for inspection, or because we are no longer working on the 727 or F100 which were more work intense?

In my area and others thru-out the base the work force has done an excellent job at maintaining the fleet that the items are now coming in less for repairs. That is quality work everyone likes to talk about. We as Employees at AA do a very good job, But if you are just complaining and not doing anything to ensure AA management is doing the right thing than who is at fault?

 

[Superside]

CIO,
I was not referencing 727 or f100 equipment nor did I list them.
I did however make mention of MD80 Engine Driven Hydraulic pumps.( Buy the way We still fly MD80"s, Don't WE?) Nobody I talk to knows where they went. The rack of pumps Is now at 0, yes a big fat 0. Quality has always been the goal. Are you saying that "quality" is a new or recent goal? I belived I asked you to take a walk in the South end of the turbine building and take a look around.
But why would WE expect a TWU E-board member to visit the "floor", it's not campaign time yet is it?