Twa Seniority Lawsuit Dismissed

[Drippy Quill]

I'm no accountant, and with all due respect...if there was a margine of $1.1 billion to the red, why was it not foreseen and nullified? I can not believe out of AA's good will and heart they went to that extreme to expand. Something is not being seen here by you or by me...or, and this is a big or, they are in need of replacing their accounting department and advisers.

I never wanted to waltz right in with my seniority, I simply wanted to be treated as you wish to be treated if you were purchased...ref. your contract.

You were ex-EAL? Makes me wonder why I ever walked picket or collected funds for you, had I known your feelings on unionism were so self-serving the effort would not have been placed forward.

Also..while I'm on a roll here...many of us here are ineligble for SIS due to age...I am 50, soon to be 51...started May of 78...with adjusted seniority of '84..( 2376 days lost to furlough)...SIS is not an alternative for me...if it was we would not be corresponding. American did not save us from anything...they postponed the inevitable. Shortly after American passed out the little blue hats...you know.."Two great companies..one great future"..I was on a flight to SJC...sitting next to me was a TWA stewardess on her way home...she was in tears...24 years with TWA and AA handed her walking papers within weeks of becoming "family". Did Carty save her or her fellow stewards? How about the lost pilots? Where was Carty's love? All I see American accomplished was to make me lazy , in the sense of not going out and finding another profession sooner...nothing more. I'm to blame for that.

Just remember..."what comes around, goes around"...some day you nAAtives may need something...I hope I'm the one you call...HAHAHA!!!

 

[aafsc]

I'm no accountant, and with all due respect...if there was a margine of $1.1 billion to the red, why was it not foreseen and nullified? I can not believe out of AA's good will and heart they went to that extreme to expand. Something is not being seen here by you or by me...or, and this is a big or, they are in need of replacing their accounting department and advisers.

I never wanted to waltz right in with my seniority, I simply wanted to be treated as you wish to be treated if you were purchased...ref. your contract.

You were ex-EAL? Makes me wonder why I ever walked picket or collected funds for you, had I known your feelings on unionism were so self-serving the effort would not have been placed forward.

Also..while I'm on a roll here...many of us here are ineligble for SIS due to age...I am 50, soon to be 51...started May of 78...with adjusted seniority of '84..( 2376 days lost to furlough)...SIS is not an alternative for me...if it was we would not be corresponding. American did not save us from anything...they postponed the inevitable. Shortly after American passed out the little blue hats...you know.."Two great companies..one great future"..I was on a flight to SJC...sitting next to me was a TWA stewardess on her way home...she was in tears...24 years with TWA and AA handed her walking papers within weeks of becoming "family". Did Carty save her or her fellow stewards? How about the lost pilots? Where was Carty's love? All I see American accomplished was to make me lazy , in the sense of not going out and finding another profession sooner...nothing more. I'm to blame for that.

Just remember..."what comes around, goes around"...some day you nAAtives may need something...I hope I'm the one you call...HAHAHA!!!

[post="228036"][/post]​

First, I'll try to explain the accounting. According to AMR's 2002 annual financial report, AA paid the following for TWA's assets:
$742 million cash ($625 million paid+$117 in a/c deposits TWA Inc. kept)
And assumed the folllowing liabilities.
$638 million in current liabilities, these come due in 1 year.
$734 million in TWA employee/retiree health benefits.
$519 million in a/c CAPITAL leases (not operating leases) there is a difference..
$175 million in other long term liabilities.
_____________
$2.808 billion dollars (total consideration (price) paid for TWA Inc. assets.



Allocation of price to assets:
$812 million to current assets, these can/will be used in 1 year.
$574 million in fixed assets, mainly aircraft.
$320 million in other assets.
_____
$1.706 billion- This is the fair market value of the assets purchased from TWA.

$2.808 billion-Total consideration (price paid) to TWA Inc. minus $1.706 billion fair market value of assets= $1.102 billion in overpayment.

Now given the fundamental accounting equation of Assets=Liabilities+Owners equity, this $1.102 billion overpayment must be put in an asset account to make the equation equal. In accounting this equation must always hold true. So the $1.102 billion is put into an asset account entitled "goodwill". The items in this account are difficult to quantify (unlike an airplane, slot, gate, or route authority whose fair value is easily determined) and are very subjective. It can be said that this amount represents the customer base, the experienced workforce, etc. So by putting the $1.102 billion into the goodwill account, the AA/TWA transaction is properly completed. As a side note, the FASB (the Financial Accounting Standards Board) who makes the accounting rules, pronounced that "goodwill" must be tested and if "impaired" it must be written down. AA tested it and found it to be imparied and wrote the entire account down. The $3 billion in a/c leases you heard about were "operating leases" (just like renting a car) and these are NOT included in the balance sheet (that is why it is called off balance sheet financing). Also AA incurred additional cost in terms of converting TWA aircraft to AA specs, taking on TW employees, repainting the a/c, and changing airport signage.

**You claim you did not want to waltz into AA with your TWA seniority. But you claim to be mistreated. Tell me, just what do you want/expect nAAtives to do? And what part of my contract are you referring?

**I am ex-EAL but I was in MIA not MCI and I never received anything from anybody and I never expected to. If your definition of unionism is that nAAtives pay the price for TWA's failure then we have different interpretations of the meaning of unionism. But to paraphrase a TWA pilot or flight attendant union official (forgot which) they said that the "unions representing the mechanics and related at TWA and AA are going into binding arbitration in the TRUE SPIRIT OF UNIONISM. So we went to binding arbitration in the TRUE SPIRIT OF UNIONISM, the arbitrator ruled and you got what you got or did you just expect nAAtives to "step aside" while you took the best cities, days off, etc.

**You are right, AA did just post-pone the inevitable, especially for the flight attendants. But your base (MCI) is still open and even though 31 MCI people hit the street with the rest retiring or transferring, your still at AA along with 600 pilots in addition to the 400 that were able to retire from AA. And why did you not look for another profession while TWA was still alive? Everyone knew TWA was doomed.

**Finally, as I said earlier I have ALREADY HAD IT WORSE than you in this industry. In my opnion, the rest of the industry will follow UA and US, so it won't be worth it to stick around and I think this will begin next year.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Just remember..."what comes around, goes around"...some day you nAAtives may need something...I hope I'm the one you call...HAHAHA!!!

[post="228036"][/post]​

Shame on you for harboring such nasty thoughts.

And thank you for the window on your character(or lack of same). It will help the rest of us understand your posts and place them in the proper perspective.

 

[Buck]

Shame on you for harboring such nasty thoughts.

And thank you for the window on your character(or lack of same). It will help the rest of us understand your posts and place them in the proper perspective.

[post="228157"][/post]​

I just wonder what has been taking the rest of you so long to catch on to the rantings of Dippy Quill?

 

[Bob Owens]

This statement was made prior to 9/11, SARS, Iraq war, etc. So your saying that those 21,000 TWA jobs should have been preserved forever at the expense of 21,000 nAAtives' jobs. Guess what, it did not happen and it's not going to happen. NAAtives never wanted this transaction. You TWA people should love Don Carty because 6,000 of you are still here and the rest worked for another 2 years. We nAAtives despise him for a number of reasons and the TWA deal is one of them.

[post="228001"][/post]​

Well apparently it did happen. Look at your seniority list. With maintenance around 4000 Naatives are gone while nearly all the TWA guys from the date of integration are here.

 

[aafsc]

Well apparently it did happen. Look at your seniority list. With maintenance around 4000 Naatives are gone while nearly all the TWA guys from the date of integration are here.

[post="228217"][/post]​

Your correct. I did some research and here is what I found concerning mechanics:

At the Kasher ruling in 2002 he stated that there were 13,229 AA mechanics and there were 3,272 TWA LLc mechanics. According to the latest Title I seniority list (8/15/04) there are now 9911 nAAtive mechanics and 1757 ex-TWA mecahnics. So by doing the math we can see that 3318 nAAtive mechanics are gone and 1515 ex-TWA mechanics are gone. So as everyone can see, the amount of nAAtives gone is more than double the amount of ex-TWA gone. But keep in mind there were retirements from both groups and the ex-TWA group probably had a much higher retirement rate than the nAAtives because their workforce is very senior. This disproves the TWA peoples' claim that they are the only ones getting layed off and in fact, shows that nAAtives get laid off more than twice as much. And it only gets better. In 2002, there were 19.20 AA mechanics per AA aircraft and there were 15.89 TWA llc mechanics per TWA llc aircraft. Today there are 14.64 nAAtive mechanics per origional AA aircraft and 22.24 ex-TWA mechanics per aircraft that was ex-TWA. Obviously, the rise in the ex-TWA mechanics for ex-TWA aircraft is due to the fact that large numbers of their planes were disposed of.

 

[Drippy Quill]

Your correct. I did some research and here is what I found concerning mechanics:

At the Kasher ruling in 2002 he stated that there were 13,229 AA mechanics and there were 3,272 TWA LLc mechanics. According to the latest Title I seniority list (8/15/04) there are now 9911 nAAtive mechanics and 1757 ex-TWA mecahnics. So by doing the math we can see that 3318 nAAtive mechanics are gone and 1515 ex-TWA mechanics are gone. So as everyone can see, the amount of nAAtives gone is more than double the amount of ex-TWA gone. But keep in mind there were retirements from both groups and the ex-TWA group probably had a much higher retirement rate than the nAAtives because their workforce is very senior. This disproves the TWA peoples' claim that they are the only ones getting layed off and in fact, shows that nAAtives get laid off more than twice as much. And it only gets better. In 2002, there were 19.20 AA mechanics per AA aircraft and there were 15.89 TWA llc mechanics per TWA llc aircraft. Today there are 14.64 nAAtive mechanics per origional AA aircraft and 22.24 ex-TWA mechanics per aircraft that was ex-TWA. Obviously, the rise in the ex-TWA mechanics for ex-TWA aircraft is due to the fact that large numbers of their planes were disposed of.

[post="228247"][/post]​

Did I recently see a big ole minus sign in the headcount at MCI and STL? Not so at DFW or TUL...I know, I know,...we should be happy AA saved us right? If this is saving me then someone please throw me some concrete waders. I see all of TWAers out of here shortly...then you can recrunch those numbers as you like. Fact is, our work has been going south since AA arrived, our numbers have dwindled, and now AA is gutting headcount here.

And Wrench...forgive me if I don't do back flips when approached by AA "family", the only AA natives I have dealt with are most of these AMFA yoyos here...not much of a guideline, but they openly admit they know all and have done all. You might have noticed they do not care for anyone that doesn't hug an AMFA insignia and dream of being superior to all in the airline industry...they're different (queer) that way.

*note: queer not meant in a sexual way.

 

[Bob Owens]

Did I recently see a big ole minus sign in the headcount at MCI and STL? Not so at DFW or TUL...I know, I know,...we should be happy AA saved us right? If this is saving me then someone please throw me some concrete waders. I see all of TWAers out of here shortly...then you can recrunch those numbers as you like. Fact is, our work has been going south since AA arrived, our numbers have dwindled, and now AA is gutting headcount here.

And Wrench...forgive me if I don't do back flips when approached by AA "family", the only AA natives I have dealt with are most of these AMFA yoyos here...not much of a guideline, but they openly admit they know all and have done all. You might have noticed they do not care for anyone that doesn't hug an AMFA insignia and dream of being superior to all in the airline industry...they're different (queer) that way.

*note: queer not meant in a sexual way.

[post="228695"][/post]​

Now now Drippy, what are you worried about? Are you starting to doubt Jim Little and Gless's word? Didnt Luby tell you guys that by voting yes they would save your jobs?

 

[aafsc]

Did I recently see a big ole minus sign in the headcount at MCI and STL? Not so at DFW or TUL...I know, I know,...we should be happy AA saved us right? If this is saving me then someone please throw me some concrete waders. I see all of TWAers out of here shortly...then you can recrunch those numbers as you like. Fact is, our work has been going south since AA arrived, our numbers have dwindled, and now AA is gutting headcount here.

And Wrench...forgive me if I don't do back flips when approached by AA "family", the only AA natives I have dealt with are most of these AMFA yoyos here...not much of a guideline, but they openly admit they know all and have done all. You might have noticed they do not care for anyone that doesn't hug an AMFA insignia and dream of being superior to all in the airline industry...they're different (queer) that way.

*note: queer not meant in a sexual way.

[post="228695"][/post]​

And the AA 767-200s are being overhauled in MCI. Yes or No?

 

[Drippy Quill]

Actually Bob I believe had it not been for Jim Little, Art Luby, and others that MCIE would have been for sale months ago. Loss of jobs worry me? Absolutely Bob, I hate to witness any brother or sister hit the streets...myself included. However brother Bob...I am a furlough veteran...been there many times and always found a way to feed family and all my farm animals...HAHAHA!!!....and a big ole..."HEEEEHAWWWW"...from Jake.

I'm beginning to believe that the exTWAers dislike being "saved" as much as you all dislike "saving" us...see there...a common interest!

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually Bob I believe had it not been for Jim Little, Art Luby, and others that MCIE would have been for sale months ago.


Then you must believe in fairy tales too.

Loss of jobs worry me? Absolutely Bob, I hate to witness any brother or sister hit the streets...myself included. However brother Bob...I am a furlough veteran...been there many times and always found a way to feed family and all my farm animals...HAHAHA!!!....and a big ole..."HEEEEHAWWWW"...from Jake.

Hey you can always eat the livestock if you can feed them right? The only thing is, from the way you guys have acted in the past, and the way you support the TWU I get the feeling that you would not hesistate to eat the kids either.


I'm beginning to believe that the exTWAers dislike being "saved" as much as you all dislike "saving" us...see there...a common interest!

[post="228776"][/post]​

 

[Steve Connell]

Hey you can always eat the livestock if you can feed them right? The only thing is, from the way you guys have acted in the past, and the way you support the TWU I get the feeling that you would not hesistate to eat the kids either. So you believe that anyone that does not support dwarfism eats their children?

 

[MCI transplant]

[post="228822"][/post]​

<_< Hey Bob! AMFA, Isn't the "M" in that mean "Mechanic"? Have you gotten your A&P ticket yet????? :down: :down:

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Or is that Buck? Sorry I get you two mixed up!!!

 

[Buck]

<_< Or is that Buck? Sorry I get you two mixed up!!!

[post="229522"][/post]​

Whatever you are talking about, I have my A&P tickets.