Transition Agreement, Addington litigation and arbitrations, and their possible effects on a US Airw

[ChockJockey]

I feel like I'm making progress here - good progress.

Trolling is a art.

 

[Move2CLT]

You know all about trolling, don't you.

So how is it you succumbed to temptation. You have me on your list with those two other posters yet here you are.

Please, ignore me. You're no loss here.

My heart longs for Pi.

 

[nic4us]

Parker is smart enough to take the whole thing into a prepackaged BK and quickly nullify the contacts of all parties involved. He needs only show a judge how patient he has been and how destructive the east has been and motions to suspend the CBA's will be quickly granted and dead weight (PHL, DCA - gone And maybe a portion of PHX will be consolidated into LAX)) will be shucked.

You've been close enough to the edge to know how this plays out.

Oh, yeah, "Full Pay to the Last Day", right?

There are a few little problems with your theory.

In order to file for bankruptcy, you have to be bankrupt. You can't just say, hey, we are filing chapter 11 to get out of alll these contracts and debt, even though we have a bunch of cash in the bank and assets all around the country.

Also, no judge in the country would just dismiss a contract because one side does not like how it is turning out.......think about that for a while, and why the Nic is still the only end game as long as the West says so.

 

[ChockJockey]

So how is it you succumbed to temptation. You have me on your list with those two other posters yet here you are.

I actually don't have anyone on my ignore list, because no one here yet has been able to get to me. You have potential. If you keep working at it you can achieve the honor of being my first ignored.

 

[Move2CLT]

I actually don't have anyone on my ignore list, because no one here yet has been able to get to me. You have potential. If you keep working at it you can achieve the honor of being my first ignored.

I really have no interest in you so do whatever rubs you the right way.

 

[Reed Richards]

I really have no interest in you so do whatever rubs you the right way.

You must have been quite the "grievance chairman"..or so you claim. Must have been a short career. What did you do, stand up in the hearings and yell insults? How do you ever make it through a checklist?

You owe us all new scroll buttons, we keep wearing them out getting past your posts. Really, not one statement of consequence?

RR

 

[Al Legheny]

is ratified.

Couple things Al,

First, don't post all the crap on a thread ever again. We're all familiar with it.

Second, why don't you post the words following "free to negotiate..."

You easties seem to selectively omit that part.

Oh! Yes Sir Yes Sir Three bags full Sir - however all are obviously not that familair with it.

Secondly, "free to negotiate.....", may not even apply. There is nothing stopping the company from
moving forward with a merger without a single contract covering pilots. The Railway Labor Act is silent on the issue, and Doug
Parker has stated in Crew News videos that he thinks that a three-way seniority integration under
McKaskill Bond in a merger would be a logical answer to the senioirty issue.

Neither a sririct Date of Hire nor the Nicolau award would be a likely outcome. However that being said the Ninth did advise...

By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain
in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members
— both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe
DFR suit, once a contract.

This issue means the QUESTION OF RIPENESS would be determined and the West pilots will be free to bring suit. The result of that suit is not known. Addington is not waitning to be imposed, it was dismissed. There will have to be a new trial. Judge Wake did not define bad faith conduct correctly. Humphrey V. Moore, a Supreme Court case requires a finding of "Substantial Evidence of Fraud Deceiful Action of Dishonest Conduct."

That was the part of the Adddington appeal that did not get past ripeness.

Yes USAPA is under the pain of an uquestionably ripe DFR SUIT, not a a predetermined DFR outcome from a previious trial.

 

[Al Legheny]

Parker is smart enough to take the whole thing into a prepackaged BK and quickly nullify the contacts of all parties involved. He needs only show a judge how patient he has been and how destructive the east has been and motions to suspend the CBA's will be quickly granted and dead weight (PHL, DCA - gone And maybe a portion of PHX will be consolidated into LAX)) will be shucked.

You've been close enough to the edge to know how this plays out.

Oh, yeah, "Full Pay to the Last Day", right?

Parker can "QUICKLY NULIFY THE CONTRACTS OF ALL PARTIES INVOLVED...."

I want some of whatever it is your smoking dude. Why do companies have to go to a bankruptcy court to ask to be able to modify a contract. Think about it..If companies could NULIFY a contract how would any Union ever go on strike?

Ger read dude.

 

[Phoenix]

....

Yes USAPA is under the pain of an uquestionably ripe DFR SUIT, not a a predetermined DFR outcome from a previious trial.

The West simply ignores that reality, and in doing so don't even realize what will be necessary to win a DFR lawsuit. With ALPA, a DFR would be nearly impossible to win due to the fact that ALPA could defend themselves by pointing out the fact that they weren't even at the seen of the accident... they contractually had nothing to do with the SLI (they outsourced it and the plaintiffs, perhaps under duress, agreed to outsource it). On the other hand USAPA now has complete responsibility for the SLI proposal, as the 9th has affirmed. The 9th also did some homework for the West and provided them the threshold for a DFR win when they quoted SCOTUS... wide range of reasonableness, wholly arbitrary....etc, a standard that Wake excluded entirely from his romper room court proceedings.

If the West thinks they will waltz along the same path in the next DFR suit, they have their head in the sand (ya know, the 9th only said, "not ripe", according to the willfully ignorant.) I don't blame them, a hole in the sand looks more optimistic than the path the 9th laid out for them to walk.

 

[BoeingBoy]

"With ALPA, a DFR would be nearly impossible to win due to the fact that ALPA could defend themselves by pointing out the fact that they weren't even at the seen of the accident... they contractually had nothing to do with the SLI (they outsourced it and the plaintiffs, perhaps under duress, agreed to outsource it)."

So the MDA suit is a loser in your estimation? That's the precise opposite of that they're arguing... Or at least that what those involved in the suit claim - it's all ALPA's fault and the suit will quash the Nic.

Or maybe it has something to do with ALPA not being at the seen, but at the scene...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

This issue means the QUESTION OF RIPENESS would be determined and the West pilots will be free to bring suit. The result of that suit is not known. Addington is not waitning to be imposed, it was dismissed. There will have to be a new trial. Judge Wake did not define bad faith conduct correctly. Humphrey V. Moore, a Supreme Court case requires a finding of "Substantial Evidence of Fraud Deceiful Action of Dishonest Conduct."

That was the part of the Adddington appeal that did not get past ripeness.

Yes USAPA is under the pain of an uquestionably ripe DFR SUIT, not a a predetermined DFR outcome from a previious trial.

Al,

oh, and Phoenix too,

The West fully understands the situation. It is you folks who are ignoring the facts.

Addington is not a "predetermined outcome", it is a historical fact. No outside party (i.e. the company, the IBT, the APA) are willing to push the press to test button on Seeham's flawed theory of how to use majority numbers to steal a minority's seniority within the guise of union representation, when there is an already determined, via jury verdict, history that this theory constitutes a failure of the union's DFR.


The 9th did not say usapa could use a non-Nic. The 9th said, usapa could use a non-Nic, if...IF...IF....it did not "work the disadvantages plaintiffs fear". That means, the West has to sign off on any non-Nic...and decide not to sue. Yep, the 9th absolutely understood that the West is a party here, and has its contractual rights intact. Well guess what, the West is suing over the attempted implementation of any non-Nic list.

All this BS of "wide range of reasonableness", and "bad faith" are after the fact arguements that never take into consideration that they are being used to renege on a contractually mandated, mutually agreed to binding arbitration. It just simply does not work that way.


Bottom line, the Nic is the only system seniority list accepted at LCC, and any attempt to change that will bring suit against any union and the company for a hybrid DFR and breach of contract. Oh, and there is already a jury verdict warning anybody who cares to listen that a non-Nic, particularly usapa's DOH proposal, is a failure of DFR.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Parker is smart enough to take the whole thing into a prepackaged BK and quickly nullify the contacts of all parties involved. He needs only show a judge how patient he has been and how destructive the east has been and motions to suspend the CBA's will be quickly granted and dead weight (PHL, DCA - gone And maybe a portion of PHX will be consolidated into LAX)) will be shucked.

You've been close enough to the edge to know how this plays out.

Oh, yeah, "Full Pay to the Last Day", right?

The problem for the East is what LOA93 does to East fragmentation. Under LOA93, there is no fragmentation if the company is in BK. Parker can cut at will and there's not a damn thing the East can do about it. Otherwise outside of BK, East and West Section1s are identical as both were written by ALPA. The language as to the number of regional jets is different as those remain in effect from the CBAs signed prior to the merger. RJs aren't the issue. Fragmentation is the issue and that my friends is identical East and West - provided Airways isn't in BK which then triggers the LOA93 East fragmentation.

ReedRichards is quite amusing. The West has nothing to worry about and I suspect he knows it, otherwise he wouldn't be trying so hard to spread FUD on the West.

 

[Reed Richards]

The problem for the East is what LOA93 does to East fragmentation. Under LOA93, there is no fragmentation if the company is in BK. Parker can cut at will and there's not a damn thing the East can do about it. Otherwise outside of BK, East and West Section1s are identical as both were written by ALPA. The language as to the number of regional jets is different as those remain in effect from the CBAs signed prior to the merger. RJs aren't the issue. Fragmentation is the issue and that my friends is identical East and West - provided Airways isn't in BK which then triggers the LOA93 East fragmentation.

ReedRichards is quite amusing. The West has nothing to worry about and I suspect he knows it, otherwise he wouldn't be trying so hard to spread FUD on the West.

I was not aware of any impending BK by US Airways. Nice deflection. As to FUD, there should indeed be some Fear on the West side as to lack of scope. There is no Uncertainty or Doubt on my part as to where you now sit.

Your Scope outside of BK is NOT the same as that on the EAST. How many times do I have to post the language here?

Maybe you can start another "who saved who" argument. That would get the truth back in the corner where you want it.

Thanks for the "amusing" compliment. I do my best.

RR

 

[aquagreen73s]

I was not aware of any impending BK by US Airways. Nice deflection.

Well, AWA made over $60 million in the six months leading up to the merger and then was making AAA's payroll during the final stages of the merger yet according to all the AFO's, AWA was about to go bankrupt. So which is it? A solvent company can or cannot go bankrupt? I say it can't and like AWA in 2005, there is little chance of LCC going bankrupt anytime soon. Glad we put that to rest.

Your Scope outside of BK is NOT the same as that on the EAST. How many times do I have to post the language here?

Scope is RJs. The West didn't sign away flying just to watch over a third of the West list get furloughed. That honor belongs to the East. The biggest threat to Airways pilots is the East themselves. They'll vote in a contract that has no fleet mins, just like they signed their careers away in LOA93 by a 57% margin. History will repeat, especially if there's a few nickles on the table. At least the West will have the Nicolau.

Thanks for the "amusing" compliment. I do my best.

RR

Don't get too excited. Watching luvthe9, Hate2fly and BlackSwan implode after LOA93 is going to be . . . . awesome. Free entertainment!

 

[doh nogo]

The 9th did not say usapa could use a non-Nic. The 9th said, usapa could use a non-Nic, if...IF...IF....it did not "work the disadvantages plaintiffs fear". That means, the West has to sign off on any non-Nic...and decide not to sue.

Indeed. And there is not one of us on the west who will sign off on a non-NIC list at this point. Not that there ever were many. But I'm sure there were 1 or 2% that may have been swayed in the very beginning for personal reasons. But after seeing the behavior of the east, I'm pretty confident it is 0 (ZERO)%. We have successfully stopped their aspirations dead in their tracks. There is ZERO reason not to let this play out in court since it is becoming more and more obvious that the law is on our side.

The east loud-mouths here keep talking about ratification, as if they are assured that they will out vote any non DOH contract. But the proof is in their ever increasing rhetoric, which only shows their desperation. They seem to forget... or just ignore... the fact that USAPA was voted in by a slim margin on grandiose promises that have never materialized, by a complacent and rubber stamping pilot group. Their tough talk has gone from DOH and a contract in a few months, to begging for a "compromise" on the compromise. Just one more bite of the apple please!

They are holding their breath for a win from Kasher thinking it will renew support for their failed social experiment. When the bad news hits, watch how fast USAPA sinks. So when the courts finally rule in 18 months, there will eventually be a vote on a contract with NIC. With nowhere else to go, the rank and file will abandon ship in droves and ratify the contract. Even if not in droves, it will easily be enough for 50% +1. Game over. The big flush will come to rectify the jobs and positions stolen from us out of rightful seniority.

Then they can cry in their cheerios about how unfair it all is and how much money and time they gave up, when they could have had a better contract for YEARS, and could have had far more money in the bank as well. Maybe as a consolation they can place a set of gilded captain stripes they covet so much on their mantel so their families can see what they fought in vein for all these years.