calflyboy:You see Mikey you are so blinded by tunnelvision that you don't realize that TWA owned/leased planes, certain route authorities, slots, gates, equipment, and real estate, have monetary value.
Add in TW's debt obligation for these leased planes, gates, equipment, and real estate, I no longer see the money, profits and great value.
calflyboy: Regardless if profit is being made from these assets, the fact is AA gained something that they otherwise would not have had. We don't know if TWA would have ended in bankruptcy court again on its own. Sure the probability was extremely high, but the fact of the matter is AA intervened before bankruptcy was filed and forced TWA into bankruptcy prior to acquiring assets.
Compton said as he was leaving Carty's office, I guess we will just have to file BK again. Then, yes AA became interested. It was the path TW was on and couldn't get off. Lets not forget TW had been to this court twice before, AA also had to provide TW with 2 DIP loans in the process to complete this thrid filing and keep TW planes in the air.
calflyboy😛art of the asset purchase included the offering of jobs to the unionized employees.
It was and they did.
calflyboy:Historically, when two unionized airline seniority lists were to integrated a standard was used. The two unions would sit down and hammer out some sort of integration agreement, and take any unresolved issues to arbitration. Then the lists were merged after a decision was rendered, typically. I know this is a gross simplification of the whole process. Throughout the many mergers/acquisitions in the airline industry seniority was respected in some degree by unionized groups regardless whether they were independent or AFL-CIO afiliated unions. Sometimes seniority was respected even when a group was not unionized.
Historically, maybe so. Today things are much different than the 70's and allegany/mohawk merger. Ultimately its up to the membership of a given union, what course to take in the combining of 2 labor groups. AFL-CIO will do it one way. Non afilliated unions maybe a different way. Just because everyone else does it this way. Doesn't mean we have to as well. Growing up my parents taught me, I wouldn't always get the same things and privliges that my friends did.
calflyboy:The fact of the matter is your union never sat down with the TWA FA union to even try to negotiate a seniority integration of the two lists. Your union and AA told the TWA FA's this is the way it's going to be. Gee, so much for the Allegheny-Mohawk labor protection provisions that was a standard for unionized seniority integrations.
IAM did not make it easy. There was hardly a welcoming from your side as well. IAM was trying to flex its muscle and make APFA submit to its ideas.
calflyboy:Mikey, I know you feel what was offered to the TWA FA's was generous, i.e. full pay seniority, retirement credit, etc. Let's face it, integration of seniority lists are all about BIDDING SENIORITY!
No not really. Its one aspect. APFA could have gone at it any number of ways. Even to insist that that pay start from the begining step 1. Even though AA has control over that part of seniority. APFA could have tried to convince them to offer less. After all there own employees who transfer in dont get as much as EVERY TWAer got. You guys always seem to forget that you have 100% occupational seniority in 2 bases. You guys got seniority, in the bases you brought over.
calflyboy:The position that you and others from your ilk have so adamantly upheld throughout this process is ARROGANT, morally reprehensible, and goes against the priciples of trade unionism!
I will try to look up the part about unionism, and how when a company in a BK fire sale employees are offered employment to those who are about to go to the street. That the surviving companys employees should lay themselves out to be walked on.
calflyboy:The integration of the TWA and AA employees is an example of how NOT to do a seniority integration.
So says the IAM and the TWA employees who were offered jobs through the bankruptcy procedings. Because in past, MERGERS of aircarriers who's unions both represented by the AFL-CIO worked through an intergration doesn't it will always be that way. Its not done like that with people I know outside this industry. So much for the idea thats how its always done and so much for thats how everyone does it.
calflyboy:Unionism, especially amongst airline workers, was all about "all for one, one for all" in the past, then the AA-TWA integration came along. What you and your organization have shown that it is all about me, me, me, let the rest be damned.
What Me and my organization have shown. Is that in a group even this large. The will of the MEMBERSHIP (you know, the dues paying people)will be done.
calflyboy:You and your group have ably demonstrated, by swallowing the company kool-aid, that you will stop at nothing to protect your kozy little fortress, to try and keep it impermeable rather than show some respect for your fellow unionized brothers and sisters that are now dues paying members of that selfish organization that you belong to.
Thats right APFA demonstrated that the will of the DUES PAYING MEMBERS is what we will acomplish and fight for. You nor any other TW employee were dues paying members. Your will should not be considered. Until you became a member and began paying dues. Your concern was not ours.
calflyboy:All your organization had to do was submit the whole matter to an arbitrator for determination. As you can see the TWA mechanics and rampers decision is far from what they wanted, but at the very least, it was heard by third party neutral.
Yes we could have done that. But why? It would be only to your benefit. If you got nothing you tried. If you got anything it was a plus. For me the APFA member, I am not about to negotiate for someone another carrier. Its about protecting your members and there rights and privliges.The arbitrator gave seniority to the detriment of the current employees. Even against what it said in there CBA.
calflyboy:Finally, because of the acquisition of TWA, AA is considered the largest airline in the world, whatever that means. I can only speak from a flight attendant perspective, your organization was once envied amongst FA groups in the industry, especially when your group orchestrated the '93 strike. For which I walked your picket line as show of solidarity for you and the AA FA's. Not anymore, the actions that your organization have displayed have been pathetic and despicable. I realize that my way too long diatribe won't mean s**t in the end, but at least I won't live with the guilt of putting senior, tenored employees, regardless of airline origin, on the streets. Remember the adage? What goes around comes around. [🙁]
We had a succesful strike against AA in 93. We were grateful for all the support from unions and people alike. Your idea of now, not supporting the APFA is sad. Youll take the protection work rules and pay rates and sit on the side and do nothing. How does that benefit yourself, or your career. I dont want to see any employee on the street. No one does. I would feel Guilt putting myself on the street, for someone who has worked here for about a year. I should feel guilty for people who worked for a airline already twice in bankruptcy court, losing money through the greatest boom time our country and our industry has seen? I should feel guilty for people who waited out for the other shoe to fall, for the failure or purchase of TW? You know who I have to feel really bad for. The people who came from TW before the buyout. The ones who are on second and thrid step pay. Who face a layoff as well. The ones who made the hard choice, started over, the ones who aren't looking to gain something on the backs of people who were already here.[/quote]