Time to decertify ALPA?

[Phoenix]

I know what it takes for change to happen.

Yeah? You know huh? Really? Are you sure? 😱 😱

If it was a snake it would have bit ya.

 

[ClueByFour]

Been a member of ALPA for 30 years. I know a little bit more about it than you do Clue.

And I was a member of a union local that filed (and won, via settlement) a DFR suit. The most that the U pilot group can do is decertify the union. And a plugged nickel says that won't happen (the GAG rears it's ugly head again).

And I believe the list will be voided. With the support of most of the other airline members of ALPA. Because with the flawed merger policy in place, merger possibilities abounding, and airlines like JetBlue, AirTran, and the others a list like this could happen at DAL, UAL or NWA and no one is going to stand for it.

The others on that list don't care. And some of them (notably UAL) remember when the U pilots were talking abou the same overreaching crap during the UAL/US thing a few years back.

 

[pilot]

And I was a member of a union local that filed (and won, via settlement) a DFR suit. The most that the U pilot group can do is decertify the union. And a plugged nickel says that won't happen (the GAG rears it's ugly head again).
The others on that list don't care. And some of them (notably UAL) remember when the U pilots were talking abou the same overreaching crap during the UAL/US thing a few years back.

First of all most of the GAG, including our favorite GAG member, lost big time. 320 lost well over 1000 numbers. So I'll take your plugged nickel bet.

As far as the others go it's simple. If a merger between AirTran and NWA were to happen the same absurd list could be made due to the ALPA merger policy and a senile arbitrator. So it is in ALL legacy ALPA carrier members to see this travesty righted and the merger policy changed.

I fail to see how Date of Hire is over-reaching anything. I you think it is you simply don't understand what seniority is to a pilot. Or what precedents were set in pretty much each and every airline merger since the industry began. Or what the East pilots were asking for.

pilot

 

[careerfurloughee]

First of all most of the GAG, including our favorite GAG member, lost big time. 320 lost well over 1000 numbers.
pilot

The only bright spot in the whole award.

 

[pilot]

The only bright spot in the whole award.

My mistake. He only lost 600 numbers. Now lets see if these guys who stand for nothing and giveback anything have finally awakened to the rape and pillage of a profession.

 

[700UW]

You know the company did nothing in regard to this arbitration, yet you want to punish the passengers for YOUR OWN leaderships lack of ability.

You voted for them, you kept them in office with every concession, now you are paying for it.

You pilots got screwed by your own fellow pilots and you want to punish the other employees, passengers and the company, makes no sense to me.

 

[aquagreen73s]

And I believe the list will be voided. With the support of most of the other airline members of ALPA. Because with the flawed merger policy in place, merger possibilities abounding, and airlines like JetBlue, AirTran, and the others a list like this could happen at DAL, UAL or NWA and no one is going to stand for it.

pilot

You're dreaming. UAL thinks this list is very fair. The problem for all of you is that you shot your mouths off with the UAL buyout just like you did with this buyout. You were totally divorced from reality then and you are totally divorced from reality now. Every UAL crewmember I've spoken to since this buyout was announced had nothing good to say about the East. They were 100% correct about how unrealistic East is/was. But we now know that the process works the way it's supposed to. If you acutally believe there is sympathy out there for you, then you best think again. Quit, try to shut it down, decertify...whatever. You're only 2700 pilots. You're easily replacable.

 

[Bear96]

I fail to see how Date of Hire is over-reaching anything. I you think it is you simply don't understand what seniority is to a pilot. Or what precedents were set in pretty much each and every airline merger since the industry began. Or what the East pilots were asking for.

Then why doesn't the ALPA merger policy simply state seniority in mergers should be DOH?

 

[Rico]

Someone pointed this little ditty out before, but it is worth repeating.

The Biggest injustice is not Collelo being placed behind everyone at AWA, because he supposedly was "on furlough" (while flying a E-170 for US Airways at the time)

It is that the 2nd most junior pilot on the list, has 19 years service with U, while the guy ahead of him was hired at HP in 05...

That is the reason why ALPA needs to go.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Someone pointed this little ditty out before, but it is worth repeating.

The Biggest injustice is not Collelo being placed behind everyone at AWA, because he supposedly was "on furlough" (while flying a E-170 for US Airways at the time)

It is that the 2nd most junior pilot on the list, has 19 years service with U, while the guy ahead of him was hired at HP in 05...

That is the reason why ALPA needs to go.

No, it means 19 years of service amounts to a hill of beans anywhere else. Where did you expect Collelo to go? To come in as a captain when he probably had no chance of ever getting recalled? Look at it this way: East did a hell of a lot better with the ALPA policy than what TWA did with the APA. Both TWA and East were within hours of liquidation. The results could have been much "worse" for the East. They should be thanking ALPA.

 

[pilot]

Then why doesn't the ALPA merger policy simply state seniority in mergers should be DOH?

After this debacle it will.

Or you will find TENS of thousands of pilots resigning from ALPA. Imagine if DAL had merged with AWA and the resultant list came out the way this one did.

What do you think the DAL pilots would be doing?

Replace DAL with NWA, UAL, CAL, or any other legacy and each would be screaming as loud or louder than we are.

The merger policy was flawed and is flawed and it will change. As will this integrated list.

If it doesn't it will be the end of ALPA.

pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

It is that the 2nd most junior pilot on the list, has 19 years service with U, while the guy ahead of him was hired at HP in 05...

That is the reason why ALPA needs to go.

Wait a second. That implies, if I'm reading this right, that the 2nd most junior guy was (is) a 737 FO, right?

And presumably the guy from HP is a 737 FO, right?

That seems to me like relative seniority.

 

[Phoenix]

Or what the East pilots were asking for.

pilot

Everyone keeps throwing around DOH. USAir did not ask for DOH. They asked for a consideration of LOS length of service.

 

[CV580ETOPS]

After this debacle it will.

Or you will find TENS of thousands of pilots resigning from ALPA. Imagine if DAL had merged with AWA and the resultant list came out the way this one did.

What do you think the DAL pilots would be doing?

Replace DAL with NWA, UAL, CAL, or any other legacy and each would be screaming as loud or louder than we are.

The merger policy was flawed and is flawed and it will change. As will this integrated list.

If it doesn't it will be the end of ALPA.

pilot

Somehow I think the Delta pilots wouldn't have been as stupid as the USAir pilots were in calling for DOH,especially when ALPA intergration policy doesn't allow for it in their bylaws.

Everyone keeps throwing around DOH. USAir did not ask for DOH. They asked for a consideration of LOS length of service.

Same thing,isn't it?

 

[Phoenix]

Wait a second. That implies, if I'm reading this right, that the 2nd most junior guy was (is) a 737 FO, right?

And presumably the guy from HP is a 737 FO, right?

That seems to me like relative seniority.

Well that is an interesting barometer that omits the criteria of ALPA merger policy.

Try this interesting situation for size.

A USAir pilot works for 14 years at USAir and then gets furloughed. He then gets hired onto the bottom of HP (still hopeful that one day he could work for one of the real majors, whatever that means) and works for 2 years at HP before the merger happens.

He is now on the merged seniority list twice. One based on his position on each prior list.

With a reasonable integration, where would you expect him to show up for each? You be the judge.

His two new numbers are over 1000 numbers different. His 2 years of service at HP got him placed above someone at USAir with 20 years of active service, who was over 700 numbers senior to him on thursday. After starting his career over, his seniority leapfrogged 700 of his previous co-workers.

Boy if everyone could start over after 14 years with that much karma. B) 🙄 :blink: :unsure: 🙁 😛

Same thing,isn't it?

No. Of course not.