Thoughts On F/a Concessions

[StewGuy86]

StewGuy,

Why in heavens name do you want to negotiate in public? This is one of the worst things labor can do to itself. Talk about it amongst yourselves, but to do this publicly is a using poor judgement.

Denver, CO

[post="171871"][/post]​

I suppose I can see why you'd say that, but I have to disagree. Using that rationale, then why have these discussion boards at all? One could argue that there are all sorts of things mentioned on here that they wouldn't want management to see. Somehow I highly doubt that the 10 or so F/As that regularly post on here would have any sort of impact on our negotiations. I have a hard time envisioning someone from the company side reading this and saying, "Oh, so they're willing to give up this or that! They said so on the USAviation.com message boards. I'll be sure and make a note of that and bring it up at the negotiating table."

 

[StewGuy86]

Is it only a service training that separates the two groups? Does everyone go through ditching in recurrent training? If not would require additional FAA training.

[post="171855"][/post]​

Everyone goes through ditching. But unless you're on Transatlantic or based in PHL Domestic, the company doesn't train you on the A330. Regarding the fence itself, from what I understand it has been mostly the union that has fought to keep the fence and not so much the company.

 

[PITbull]

Please o please...bring down that awful fence between the domestic flying and the Transatlantic division of flying! Its so outdated! And dont tell me that training FAs in the Envoy service will be costly. The Envoy service now is so simple. Its like doing a transcons service. Any FA can pick that up after a couple of trips. Im based in PHW, and i miss going to LAS,SFO,LGA and BOS. bring the fence down!

[post="171828"][/post]​

Fence will probably be taken down, but the co. wants you to train for free, otherwise there is no cost savings to them.

The AFA proposal was a good one. It offerd an OPEN furlough to everyone on the property and mirrored 19.3 with the exception of "no recall". The assumption here is to incentivize senior folks who may want to leave whereby saving some permanent jobs. The assumption with this great savings to the co. by this offer was in exchange for not having to take paycuts for the workers left on the property who would probably be much junior. There is the two late check-ins and the "good faith comuter policy" language that Mid Atlantic has and is excellent. Also the Personal off days are excellent. Don't forget, that's AFA proposal, the co. is not budging and is basically not in a hurry to negotiate reasonably. One could easly think there is no timeline at all the way the co. keeps uping the antee.

 

[DCAflyer]

Fence will probably be taken down, but the co. wants you to train for free, otherwise there is no cost savings to them.

The AFA proposal was a good one. It offerd an OPEN furlough to everyone on the property and mirrored 19.3 with the exception of "no recall". The assumption here is to incentivize senior folks to save permanent jobs whereby not having to take paycuts for the workers left on the property. There is the two late check-ins and the "good faith comuter policy" language that Mid Atlantic has and is excellent. Also the Personal off days are excellent. Don't forget, that's AFA proposal, the co. is not budging and is basically not in a hurry to negotiate reasonably. YOu would think there is no timeline at all.

[post="172158"][/post]​

Please ask Teddy, Molly, and the gang to take copious notes of not only the negotiation process but the company's lack of progress and getting to the table. Surely, the company will argue that it attempted in good faith to negotiate. We must demonstrate to the judge that it did not.

 

[PITbull]

Don't worry, we got that covered, with plenty of email exchanges to prove it.

 

[ua767fo]

I suppose I can see why you'd say that, but I have to disagree. Using that rationale, then why have these discussion boards at all? One could argue that there are all sorts of things mentioned on here that they wouldn't want management to see. ..........................I'll be sure and make a note of that and bring it up at the negotiating table."

[post="172155"][/post]​

Stew Guy,
After you've been around this industry 25 years, have been on an LEC, and involved in negotiations, then you'll understand that "loose lips sink ships" . What these message boards do is give managements a 'sense of the body'. Its easy for a close knit managerial group of 3-5 to hold their cards close to their vest. Its also easy for them to see labors cards by reading these boards, a distinct advantage for them. Yes, management does take notes and bring things up at the negotiating table that are to their advantage. You only hurt your own cause.

DENVER, CO

 

[hp_fa]

Stew Guy,
After you've been around this industry 25 years, have been on an LEC, and involved in negotiations, then you'll understand that "loose lips sink ships" . What these message boards do is give managements a 'sense of the body'. Its easy for a close knit managerial group of 3-5 to hold their cards close to their vest. Its also easy for them to see labors cards by reading these boards, a distinct advantage for them. Yes, management does take notes and bring things up at the negotiating table that are to their advantage. You only hurt your own cause.

DENVER, CO

[post="172312"][/post]​

It is the same everywhere.

 

[NAPAUS]

Stew Guy,
After you've been around this industry 25 years, have been on an LEC, and involved in negotiations, then you'll understand that "loose lips sink ships" . What these message boards do is give managements a 'sense of the body'. Its easy for a close knit managerial group of 3-5 to hold their cards close to their vest. Its also easy for them to see labors cards by reading these boards, a distinct advantage for them. Yes, management does take notes and bring things up at the negotiating table that are to their advantage. You only hurt your own cause.

DENVER, CO

[post="172312"][/post]​

Excellent point. This is really nothing new, the co, all airlines, push the envelope right to the very limit. Time will tell what their bottom line is. Meanwhile AFA and the f/as resolve must be to be unified, strong, and determined to not loose EVERYthing we've worked so hard for. Seems like we ALL are going backwards - just how FAR we want to go is up to us! Hats off to the negotiating committee - wish them the best! PEACE and good luck to all the unions on the property.

 

[PITbull]

Stew Guy,
After you've been around this industry 25 years, have been on an LEC, and involved in negotiations, then you'll understand that "loose lips sink ships" . What these message boards do is give managements a 'sense of the body'. Its easy for a close knit managerial group of 3-5 to hold their cards close to their vest. Its also easy for them to see labors cards by reading these boards, a distinct advantage for them. Yes, management does take notes and bring things up at the negotiating table that are to their advantage. You only hurt your own cause.

DENVER, CO

[post="172312"][/post]​

Actually ua76, that is not always the case. Gving ideas they have the least collateral damage and what may ratify is everyone's interest.

USAirways is not looking for a proposal that the members will not ratify or can't live with. Even in BK, if they abrogate agreements, they will be left with an entire workforce that will not be productive, and will look for reasons to go on strike.

It is to the betterment of everyone, including the corporation to come to a T/A that has a good possibly of ratifying and is livable.

The sick issue that the company recently fixed for the f/as and pilots was partly because of the e-mail exchanges to the co. and this forum.

So, it works for us.