They Pay me just enough not to quit! So I do just enough to not get fired!

[777 fixer]

Many of us took the best offer we had at the time, and many employers take the best applicants they had at the time. These facts alone will make it impossible to make one statement that is true for all people and all times. There might actually be things that would seem to be contradictory.

By saying AA has stoped hiring "quality" workers for some time and then stating you are suprised that good young wrenches have stayed in my book that's a contradiction. It's seems that you are trying to have it both ways.

Each generation thinks that the one that follows can't measure up them. It seems that this is the case here

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Each generation thinks that the one that follows can't measure up them. It seems that this is the case here

Pretty broad statement, that. You are certainly over-simplifying. Either to aid in your understanding or just to have something to argue with. Straw man, perhaps.

All things being equal, one could make the accusation you make, and at least be entertained by it or even admit a glimmer of truth. However, and here's the rub...........all things are not equal. For quite a while, AA was one of the top-paying airlines, so they could require that applicants for a mech job met certain requirements. Things like heavy aircraft experience, military experience, FCC licenses for avionics, English proficiency, things like that. When the pay here at AA went down to number 7 or number 9, AA could no longer hire enough mechs who met those qualifications. So the standards were lowered. Remarkably, we still hired some good wrenches, most likely because AA was the only airline hiring at one time or another. But, it is undeniable that AA lowered their standards for hiring mechanics. Non of this is generational, it is just business and economics and good old supply and demand. I would venture to say that any number of occupational fields have a parallel situation. Computer tech support for example. Except for Kingston, if I may insert a positive review here.

So, your statement, "Each generation thinks that the one that follows can't measure up them" may or may not be true, it is undeniable that the older generation of AA mechanic applicants had to meet more selective standards.

 

[777 fixer]

Pretty broad statement, that. You are certainly over-simplifying. Either to aid in your understanding or just to have something to argue with. Straw man, perhaps.

So, your statement, "Each generation thinks that the one that follows can't measure up them" may or may not be true, it is undeniable that the older generation of AA mechanic applicants had to meet more selective standards.

It's undeniable? Now there's a "broad" staement. Would you please explain to me some the guys I have worked with who have 30+ years who are totally useless. And not useless in the sense that they no longer have the "drive" to put forth the effort. Usless in the sense that the only thing they are proficent at is changing coffee makers.

Speaking of "broad" statements your original one about AA not apying enough to attract "quality" workers is preety "braod". Does this apply to pilots and FA's as well? Or does it apply only to AMT's?

 

[Bob Owens]

I stay because I'm unemployable elsewhere...

What's funny is that I've been hearing this same line of "this job sucks but not enough for me to quit" since I started...

Probably because you were always non-union and did not have a job where your skills were specific to the airlines.

Most of the mechanics I know once loved coming to work, not anymore, and it shows in the performance.

It's undeniable? Now there's a "broad" staement. Would you please explain to me some the guys I have worked with who have 30+ years who are totally useless. And not useless in the sense that they no longer have the "drive" to put forth the effort. Usless in the sense that the only thing they are proficent at is changing coffee makers.

Because that is all management ever required from them.

Speaking of "broad" statements your original one about AA not apying enough to attract "quality" workers is preety "braod". Does this apply to pilots and FA's as well? Or does it apply only to AMT's?

I would say it applies to everyone,except upper management.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Speaking of "broad" statements your original one about AA not apying enough to attract "quality" workers is preety "braod". Does this apply to pilots and FA's as well?

Are you trying to start a sh--storm here?

I can remember when FAs had to have college degrees. I will not conjecture as to whether that assured more "quality", but it certainly was a more stringent requirement.

I can also remember being told by AA that they were taking applications for pilot jobs only from ex-military multi engine turbine transport pilots. Fighter pilots were not even given applications, either, whether for reasons of experience, training, temperament or Stanine results. And general aviation pilots like myself were not even looked at, however high the Stanine scores may have been. Again, I cannot say whether that got AA better pilots, but the strict requirements certainly got AA well-trained and experienced new hires who did not need much training. Many of them made the transition from KC135s or C135s to their civilian counterpart, the 707, almost seamlessly. One pilot jokingly told me that his training consisted of how to make PA's and how to smile at passengers as they deplaned. Oh, yeah, he had to get used to AA's altimeter usage.

So, to make it easy to understand, hiring prerequisites used to be more stringent for the other work groups you mentioned, too. I presume AA had what they thought were good reasons. But I would not make a broad quality statement about jobs I have not done.

 

[eolesen]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: aside from mechanics and pilots, there are very few jobs at an airline which I'd consider to be career positions.

Anything else is entry-level, and there's an almost endless opportunity to transfer or promote up at AA. The majority of employees who choose stay in one position for their entire career pretty much do so deliberately, either because they don't want to move, or because they just don't want to take on a job with more responsibility than they already do/don't have.

So, you can call me arrogent or whatever else you want to, but forgive me if I just don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who complains about the quality of their worklife or the lack of paycheck growth when they're the one who chose to stay in an entry level position for 20 years or more.

 

[Bob Owens]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: aside from mechanics and pilots, there are very few jobs at an airline which I'd consider to be career positions.

Anything else is entry-level, and there's an almost endless opportunity to transfer or promote up at AA. The majority of employees who choose stay in one position for their entire career pretty much do so deliberately, either because they don't want to move, or because they just don't want to take on a job with more responsibility than they already do/don't have.

So, you can call me arrogent or whatever else you want to, but forgive me if I just don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who complains about the quality of their worklife or the lack of paycheck growth when they're the one who chose to stay in an entry level position for 20 years or more.

And?????

Most of those on this thread are mechanics.

 

[Hopeful]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: aside from mechanics and pilots, there are very few jobs at an airline which I'd consider to be career positions.

Anything else is entry-level, and there's an almost endless opportunity to transfer or promote up at AA. The majority of employees who choose stay in one position for their entire career pretty much do so deliberately, either because they don't want to move, or because they just don't want to take on a job with more responsibility than they already do/don't have.

So, you can call me arrogent or whatever else you want to, but forgive me if I just don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who complains about the quality of their worklife or the lack of paycheck growth when they're the one who chose to stay in an entry level position for 20 years or more.

Moderator, do you know that at one time being an aircraft mechanic was considered to be at the top of the blue collar work force? There was never any reason NOT to stay as a mechanic.

 

[777 fixer]

Are you trying to start a sh--storm here?

I can remember when FAs had to have college degrees. I will not conjecture as to whether that assured more "quality", but it certainly was a more stringent requirement.

I can also remember being told by AA that they were taking applications for pilot jobs only from ex-military multi engine turbine transport pilots. Fighter pilots were not even given applications, either, whether for reasons of experience, training, temperament or Stanine results. And general aviation pilots like myself were not even looked at, however high the Stanine scores may have been. Again, I cannot say whether that got AA better pilots, but the strict requirements certainly got AA well-trained and experienced new hires who did not need much training. Many of them made the transition from KC135s or C135s to their civilian counterpart, the 707, almost seamlessly. One pilot jokingly told me that his training consisted of how to make PA's and how to smile at passengers as they deplaned. Oh, yeah, he had to get used to AA's altimeter usage.

So, to make it easy to understand, hiring prerequisites used to be more stringent for the other work groups you mentioned, too. I presume AA had what they thought were good reasons. But I would not make a broad quality statement about jobs I have not done.

Funny that AA would not consider fighter pilots but would hire helicopter pilots. About three or four years ago a 777 captain retired who had started his flying career as a Navy helicopter pilot. Wonder who has more experience with fixed wing aircraft?

 

[Oneflyer]

Funny that AA would not consider fighter pilots but would hire helicopter pilots. About three or four years ago a 777 captain retired who had started his flying career as a Navy helicopter pilot. Wonder who has more experience with fixed wing aircraft?

Just curious, but how are AA's hiring practices from the mid 70s at all relavent? The world has changed considerably since then, specifically the military is much smaller post cold war compared to Vietnam era and the number of commercial airline pilots and freighter pilots has increased considerably.

 

[MCI transplant]

Moderator, do you know that at one time being an aircraft mechanic was considered to be at the top of the blue collar work force? There was never any reason NOT to stay as a mechanic.

<_< Hopeful---Don't live in the past man! Most Automobile mechanics make more than Aircraft mechanics! With hell of a lot less training, or responsibility!And that my friend seems to be what it's all about! Sad, but true!!!

 

[Oneflyer]

<_< Hopeful---Don't live in the past man! Most Automobile mechanics make more than Aircraft mechanics! With hell of a lot less training, or responsibility!And that my friend seems to be what it's all about! Sad, but true!!!

Honest question, are most auto mechanics that work at large car dealerships unionized? Are they UAW and receive the same benefits as production workers or are they considered employees of the dealership?

 

[MCI transplant]

Honest question, are most auto mechanics that work at large car dealerships unionized? Are they UAW and receive the same benefits as production workers or are they considered employees of the dealership?

<_< Oneflyer---- answeer: YES,and NO! Some are, most aren't! Some have bennies! Some don't! Listen! If you make "enough" money, you provide your own benefits! You save,invest, moonlight! You do what you have to! I've lived this way for quit a few years! I've had my salary and pension frozen for ten years, and then doped on the PBGC in bankruptcy! You people have had it good, and don't know it! I'm not saying it's right! Just that other people have had it a lot worse! So quit crying ,and do something about it! Get a new Union if that's what it takes!

 

[AMFAMAN]

Just curious, but how are AA's hiring practices from the mid 70s at all relavent?

 

[Hackman]

Wonder why he's wearing a tie with coveralls? Could he be an early form of the twu company union lackey on a Joint Leadership Team school pajama party?

Could he have found an early "Breakthrough Goal" in his left pocket? h34r:

"Our best students never graduate....and always vote yes for twu concessions". :huh: