The Transformation Plan

[firstamendment]

Just thought of an interesting idea. I wonder if UA could convince ANA to move there NRT-IAD to NRT-PHL and codeshare that with US. UA could pick up the NRT-IAD with one of the grounded 744's.

That would give USAir the ability to have an Asia feed directly into one of it's hubs and would allow for a greater Star-Asia presence on the eastern seaboard.

Also UA/US should codeshare the London Heathrow and Gatwick flights. This would give US codeshare access to Heathrow and UA the east coast feeder network to help feed these flights.

Oh my , intelligent discussions between U and UAL. There IS a God!!

 

[ITRADE]

Once-a-pone a time a lot of thought went into all direct-flight city pair’s served. For the longest time to this bunch a hub flights’ a hub flight. Even if they can’t justify non-stop ORF-SAN flights, a morning and afternoon direct flight though CLT makes competitive sense. For years Piedmont made money running a couple of flights daily from JAX (Navy) through - CHS (Navy), ORF (Navy) and on to LGA direct. 737's too....

For a while, there was a one-stopper ORF-CLT-SAN flight. All airlines switch around their one stop parings all the time.

 

[Bear96]

Just thought of an interesting idea. I wonder if UA could convince ANA to move there NRT-IAD to NRT-PHL and codeshare that with US. UA could pick up the NRT-IAD with one of the grounded 744's.

That would give USAir the ability to have an Asia feed directly into one of it's hubs and would allow for a greater Star-Asia presence on the eastern seaboard.

Also UA/US should codeshare the London Heathrow and Gatwick flights. This would give US codeshare access to Heathrow and UA the east coast feeder network to help feed these flights.

Don't forget NRT and LHR have many government restrictions.

For PHL-NRT, you would have to get the Japanese and US gov't on board, and deal with other airline's objections. Adding a new NRT service is difficult. Not only are there gov't route authority issues, but NRT slot constraints as well.

For LHR, I don't think U would be able to code share on LHR flights. UA and AA are the only US carriers permitted to operate into LHR and I doubt another US carrier could just attach their flight numbers to LHR flights that easily. You would have VS and AA in a tizzy, as well as DL, NW, and CO, who have been wanting LHR access in some form or another for years. I don't know all the details of Bermuda II so maybe this would be possible, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[ual777fan]

I am not totally sure about the NRT restricitions as UA does have 5th freedom in NRT. NWA is the only other US airline with this authority. That should make the launching the route much easier. As for Heathrow, it could be a continous battle but then it could also have an amazing payoff for both US and UA.

It's time for both airlines to stop fooling around and circling wagons, both need to become agressive. I am a believer in the defense is a good offense. I can't think of a modern war were the party on the defensive has won.

 

[Bear96]

I am not totally sure about the NRT restricitions as UA does have 5th freedom in NRT. NWA is the only other US airline with this authority. That should make the launching the route much easier.

Sorry but I am missing how 5th Freedom rights are relevant here? We are not talking about beyond-NRT service but rather having ANA start a new PHL-NRT service, and UA replacing ANA IAD-NRT (which I believe would be less of a problem though there is still a slot issue as there would still be a net gain of flights to/from NRT).

 

[whlinder]

Don't forget NRT and LHR have many government restrictions.

For PHL-NRT, you would have to get the Japanese and US gov't on board, and deal with other airline's objections. Adding a new NRT service is difficult. Not only are there gov't route authority issues, but NRT slot constraints as well.

For LHR, I don't think U would be able to code share on LHR flights. UA and AA are the only US carriers permitted to operate into LHR and I doubt another US carrier could just attach their flight numbers to LHR flights that easily. You would have VS and AA in a tizzy, as well as DL, NW, and CO, who have been wanting LHR access in some form or another for years. I don't know all the details of Bermuda II so maybe this would be possible, but I kinda doubt it.

CO puts their code on some of VS' flights to LHR.

I think that the Star Alliance will figure out a way to have non-stop flights from two of their most important cities (NRT/LHR) into their new East Coast USA feeder's main airport before too long. Having ANA move their IAD flight to PHL sounds reasonable, and perhaps UA can start PHL-LHR.

--

60 additional planes? I thought there was all this overcapacity in the industry that needed to go away in order to push fares up to levels that cover cost? 🙄

 

[Rob]

Bear, VS already codeshares with CO into LHR. They won't complain about anything.

 

[ITRADE]

I am not totally sure about the NRT restricitions as UA does have 5th freedom in NRT. NWA is the only other US airline with this authority. That should make the launching the route much easier. As for Heathrow, it could be a continous battle but then it could also have an amazing payoff for both US and UA.

It would be easier to rob Fort Knox than gain entry to LHR.

Of course, US really could use some JFK service to at least link up to the UAL flights to LHR.

I've actually created a JFK flight schedule - should US ever return there.

3x daily PHL, 2x daily DCA, 2x daily CLT, 2x daily PIT, and 1x daily BOS.

JFK schedule

 

[funguy2]

I think the answer is that the BOS expansion would possibly come as a consequence of a downsizing of another hub - not sure which one would be downsized, but folks could certainly surmise the one.

As to SJC, it would be part of a reopening of the station for US. SJC and BOS are big technology centers and the addition of "nerd bird" flights would certainly bring in business passengers (even though many tech companies are very, very price sensitive).

The point of the transcon flying is that if you want to keep a FF passenger base alive in the area, you're going to have to offer options other than PQI, RKD, PIT, and CLT.

I think US Airways has stated specifically which hub would be downsized! I agree that any "expansion" will just be a redeployment... As I have stated, I don't buy this 60-new-aircraft thing.

As to SJC... if USAir can't make it work from the hubs, I am not sure how they make it work point to point. They would be better off reopening SJC through the other hubs and offering one-stop service... But, as I said, that didn't seem to work the last time...I also think that AA has put some focus and resources on the tech cities... but only because they were there anyways... SJC, RDU, AUS, and BOS in particular. At this point USAir would be a follower, and a very distant one at that. If USAir wants to connect the tech centers, they would be wise to focus on the East Coast initially.

I understand your point about the frequent flyers, but I'm not sure you get into a blood-bath transcon battle that UAir could never win in order to do it. We all know UAIR has the highest CASM in the industry. I am not sure where UAIR ranks when it is stage-length adjusted (might be better over longer hauls), but I am sure it is only comparable to AA/UA, et al, and still more than AWA and Jet Blue... Meanwhile, AWA and JetBlue will set the pricing... More capacity in the market will make the pricing pressure worse.

 

[Bear96]

I know VS and CO have something worked out. I am not sure how they did it (though I'm sure Branson's UK connections helped), but I have to think if it were that easy to do, other airlines would have followed suit with similar arrangements. And I am not sure their situation is quite analogous-- that arrangement is with a US and UK carrier, so each side could claim they are getting something out of it (which is ALWAYS an issue in LHR negotiations). Two US carriers enjoying the same benefit would be seen as not fair to the UK side, I would think.

But, hopefully something can be worked out for the benefit of both U and UA.

 

[deltawatch]

NEW BUSINESS PLAN:

The Company has postponed its announcement of the “new business planâ€￾ until the first of February. The Company has not called CWA to talk about our roll in the new business plan, yet. The CWA leadership has already informed the Company that based on what our membership has said to us, we are not willing to talk about concessions. The CWA will release information about the new business plan and how it might affect CWA employees when it is given to us.

http://www.cwalocal3641.com/presidents_mes...ssage_board.htm

 

[nycbusdriver]

NEW BUSINESS PLAN:

The Company has postponed its announcement of the “new business planâ€￾ until the first of February.

If the "new" business plan is so wonderful, why can management afford to keep putting it off while we hemorrage cash at an alarming rate.

If it necessitates more contractual give-backs from labor, which it likely does despite Siegel's denial, it will take quite a while to get all labor groups to vote for ratification. And then revote when they all vote it down the first time.

 

[delldude]

NEW BUSINESS PLAN:

The Company has postponed its announcement of the “new business planâ€￾ until the first of February. The Company has not called CWA to talk about our roll in the new business plan, yet. The CWA leadership has already informed the Company that based on what our membership has said to us, we are not willing to talk about concessions. The CWA will release information about the new business plan and how it might affect CWA employees when it is given to us.

http://www.cwalocal3641.com/presidents_mes...ssage_board.htm

you never know with these clowns...maybe he doesn't have you in the big picture...remember that??"you're not looking at the big picture"....
mantra from days gone by...... :blink:

 

[funguy2]

NEW BUSINESS PLAN:

The Company has postponed its announcement of the “new business planâ€￾ until the first of February. The Company has not called CWA to talk about our roll in the new business plan, yet. The CWA leadership has already informed the Company that based on what our membership has said to us, we are not willing to talk about concessions. The CWA will release information about the new business plan and how it might affect CWA employees when it is given to us.

http://www.cwalocal3641.com/presidents_mes...ssage_board.htm

Hardly surprising...

The plot thickens some more...

Maybe the company is trying to figure out how to add 120 airplanes while closing down two hubs! 🙄

 

[ual777fan]

I think that USAir needs to reach a point with it's express service and ask questions like, is there really a need to serve destinations that only have 7 or 8 passengers a day? Is it really worth paying a carrier to do those flights? If not there should stop service to those cities espicially if a hub like Pittsburgh is right next door.

By doing that they can consolidate and elimate some of overlap and duplication in there route system