The Big Question

[Rico]

The BIG QUESTION...?

What is it eexactly that YOU, yourself are trying to accomplish.

What is it that you are trying to secure near term and far...?

Through all the turmoil US Airways is Guarenteed to go through, what EXACTLY is it that you hope to see...?



Me...?

I want to see the company survive first and foremost. ANYONE on here should want that. Unless you are so hard case bitter, feeling so angry or jealous or emotional that you no longer think straight ... then there is no reason to wish for tens of thousands to be "on the street"

I want to see the company be competitive. I hold no grudge against our competition, but I know that THE ONLY true way to make my job secure, the only way to expect growth, the only way to maintain a high salary is if the company I am working for can deliver our product better, cheaper, and more profitably than the "other guys".

I want this place to have a future There are still going to be a lot of people that need to go to a lot of places. I got into this industry because I thought it was more interesting to work in a fast paced and dynamic enviorment than other more "sedate" job choices. It is my real hope that US Airways can adapt to the changing world of airline flying and be successful.

I would hope that everyone on here can agree with these three things...



Working from that point, what makes the above items happen...

Market forces are like the "waves against a sand castle", they will erode whatever you have attained in any CBA unless you are willing to do what is necessary to remain competitive.

Sure, there will be plenty of people that will try to confuse or distract you from that statement, those who have entrenched interests, that no longer can be supported in the reality WE face today.

They will make it personal, they will make fun of, they will try to be clever...

But unless they can justify what they are doing here at the company, is as cheap or cheaper than thier counterparts at our direct competition, then they have little justification nor credibility.

I am not in the mood to take a 100% pay cut, only because some people want to shelter themselves from marketplace reality for a few more months.


Good Luck to all of us.

 

[700UW]

Then explain how WN pays their employees more then anyother LCC or Major Carrier?

Explain how their F/As just got a 31% raise.

Explain how they have been profitable for 30 years consecutive

Explain how they did not layoff one employee after 9/11 hit.

Explain how they are the highest % of unionized employees.

Explain how they do not have one RJ on the property or on order.

 

[Hope777]

It's called repsect for the Employee. So in turn, the Employee TRUSTS Management.

 

[700UW]

You will take 100% paycut if the current management cannot generate revenue instead of trying pickpocket it out of the employees wallets.

History will tell you NOT ONE SINGLE AIRLINE has ever been saved from employee concessions alone. But I guess you keep choosing to ignore this fact.

TWA's employees took at least FIVE rounds of concessions and still saw their jobs go away. And US is heading down the same exact path.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Could it also be a factor in the success of WN that the managment there has always had a PASSION for the business, always had RESPECT for those employees who make it happen for the customers EVERYDAY, always had VISION for the future, always planned for EFFICIENCY in all areas of the operation, always SHARED in the success with his EMPLOYEES, not those who only came into ride on the coat tails and leave with millions? It just goes to show that the way a company is operated has more effect on profits, than how much it pays the hired help.

 

[Rico]

Then explain how WN pays their employees more then anyother LCC or Major Carrier?

Explain how their F/As just got a 31% raise.

Explain how they have been profitable for 30 years consecutive

Explain how they did not layoff one employee after 9/11 hit.

Explain how they are the highest % of unionized employees.

Explain how they do not have one RJ on the property or on order.

Thanks 700UW for supporting my statement, kinda surprising :blink: , but thanks.

Yes, as 700UW pointed out, SWA employees have been able to enjoy the fruits of their labors because they have been willing to do what is necessary to remain competitive...

They are a far more productive, thus well-payed group of workers over there at Southwest. I can see that 700UW and me both share the same enthusiasm for the new "Hybrid" Point to Point/Hub type of flying, and the chance for US to increase not just utilization of aircraft, but US employees as well.

Afterall, the 700Million the company is coming up with in improved efficency is JUST as necessary to insure survivability and competitive strength. And really, do we actually need a TV in any of our break rooms...?

But, it is such a great example that 700UW gave to all of us, in that

Explain how they did not layoff one employee after 9/11 hit.

Hey,. Just like 700UW knows, the SWA employees made voluntary givebacks (without being asked) right after that horrible attack because they have been willing to do what is necessary to remain competitive...


Just because you have a unionized company, does not mean that your unions can ingnore the realities of the marketplace. If we are able to lower our costs while Southwest's rise over time then we HAVE adapted to the competitive enviorment and we will prevail.

The enbtrenched mentaility of "waiting" for the other guy's costs to rise to your own will not work any longer. US airways will be long since dead and gone before their costs rise enough to where we do not have to match them.

That would be like saying in a football game, "hey, let them keep scoring and scoring... they will tire themselves out and then we will be able to get a few points ourselves..."

It is fourth quarter now, and the clock is winding down.

Give now to get later. If we emulate the success of SWA, then US employees too can reap the profit sharing and growth, and security that comes from working for a successful company.

Thanks for your help 700UW, u da man.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You know what killed this place? An idiot name SIEGEL. Coming up with a brilliant business plan that won't work, then selling it to the number two dunce, Bronner. I can't blame ANY of the employee groups for feeling betrayed at this point, but there's really little point in it. UAIR will be dead shortly, and it won't be the employee costs that killed it, it will be the lack of a good business plan. UAIR had a real chance to become something before and during the last chapter 11, but Mr. RJ, I mean Siegel, was singularly focussed on shoving 400 more little jets into the northeast ATC system, with apparently no regard for the reality of making the airline function. Rather than make an airline work through increasing revenue or finding markets management continues in Siegel's tradition of just squeezing labor. Wouldn't work then, won't work now. But now it's probably too late for UAIR to make this thing work.

 

[cavalier]

The BIG QUESTION...?

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My honest opinion: You should seek another employer if you want all these things because it will not happen at U.

Look at it with reasoning. We have been here twice before and here we are even worse for it.

Management has had opportunity to cut costs in other places before looking towards labor and has done nothing.

They are top heavy in management, far too many chiefs for too few Indians and yet they refuse to address the good old boy club that has been present at U since I have been here.

They have ripped the spirit right out of the employees with all their tactics that were less than genuine, there is zero trust, so there is nothing really to build on.

The only ones even thinking about helping out are the ones with the most to lose, the pilots, all other labor groups simply don’t have their heart in further cuts.

And the real biggy, we have a management team who has been faltering since they came on board. Spitting into the wind is all they have done accomplishing nothing. We have zero leadership whatsoever, unless you want to call Bruce All Mighty an airline executive, which he and the ego maniac Dr are not in the least. Their idea of dealing with the unions is to let Jerry have his way. Beating employees into submission is doing nothing except destroying an already very shaky company.

I am sorry, but I firmly believe the employees who actually believe there is a future at U are in denial, because it sure as hell goes being optimistic.

Like I wrote in an another post, it’s so bad now one can go to an non union environment and be better off and that is before further cuts.

Fear of the unknown is why anyone is sticking around. Sometimes reality is tough to take, but so is denial.

 

[700UW]

WN's employees did not give concessions after 9/11.

And who makes a US pilot sit around in an airport for three hours?
Not the CBA, but the company.

WN outsources 72% of their maintenance and they are bring more and more work back inhouse everyday.

Not one thing I have said in my previous post supports anything you said.

You are just like the propaganda pilot, you are scared of moving on.

If the company can save $700 million, why have they not implimented any part of it?

Why have they not addressed any of the cost savings ideas the IAM gave them back in March?

Why you have you not addressed the issue of employee concessions has yet to ever save an airline?

You by accepting a $35,000 a year F/O slot have played a role in bring down the wages in this industry, therefore hurting your coworkers not helping them.

Why would trust a management that has been proven to lie to every labor group and violate the CBAs on a daily basis?

Why would you trust a management that has squandered $4 billion in concessions and vendor giveabacks?

Why would you trust a management that has proven time after time they do not know how to run an airline?

Why would you trust a CEO who has never worked in the airline industry before to be the savior of the company?

Why would you trust a SR VP of Labor Relations who main job before he came to work at US was to bust unions? And he is trying his best to do the same at US.

It boils down to a choice, why do you care so much about what the IAM does when your own union has sold you down the river?

What would you do if one day Mesa takes over all narrowbody and EMB170 flying and the company violates your scope language?

It just shows you are scared of people actually standing up for their right to make their own choices and stand up to the greed and treachery of US Airways Management, because you are scared to move on and look for work.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Rico,
As a US outsider but someone with a fair amount of business experience, I have to say that I find a great deal of fault with US' management. In any business, it is management's responsibility to understand the trends in its industry and develop a business plan to adapt to it. Quite simply, US management has missed many opportunities and has failed to convince labor time and time again of the trends emerging in the industry and the need to adapt. Because of those repeated failures, US (and UA) are now in the position that they have to disproportionately rely on the employees in order to secure a future for the company. Unfortunately, there comes a point for every employee where they believe it is no longer worth investing any more energy in their company. Based on the proposals which have been made public for several US workgroups, I can easiliy understand why some, perhaps many, US employees have decided to hang it up.
As for the argument that those who don't want to stay at it should just walk away, the reality is that the incentives to leave are simply not there; it makes more economic sense for those people to ride US to the end and get whatever help is available then than to walk away now. If US wants to transform its company, they need to recognize that it is management's responsibility to work with the assets in the company, including the employees, rather than wish they would all just leave and devise ways to make them do just that. Although it would be nice if weren't, US' epitath may well be that "management and employees just couldn't work together to solve the company's problems."

 

[700UW]

Very well said World, but remember one thing, it is the company who has declared war upon its employees, not the other way around.

 

[Rico]

So many hurt feelings on here and so little willingness to address reality.

Was I a big fan of Steve W, no
Was I a fan whatsoever of Dave S, no...

But Mr Bronner and Mr Lakefield have already been acting different than the "leaders" of the past.

It comes down to this, If they did not care, they would shut down now, and sell off what remains for a quick payoff, and ample returns.

Instead, they are giving it one last try, to really fix things and make this place successful. what exactly is so wrong with that?

But some people do not want to listen, nor do they want to face reality.


NO MATTER what concession the company has asked for, it is far less than what you lose if we lose our jobs.

What is so great about unemployment...? Is it some badge of honor to some of you?

I HAVE been through a airline closure before, so yes, I WOULD rather not go through it again. :angry:

Ever check what Cobra costs for a family's health coverage for example...?

Stuff like that is much tougher to deal with than having to stomach a pay cut, trust me. Like it has been said before, if such cuts are too stiff for you, then use this job until you can find another. But if the company d does not survive, even those of you intent upon leaving will have no choice... We all will have to leave.

I myself, would rather make this situation work out, for the sake of all of us, not just my own self.

I certainly can replicate what I make now, and move onto new and bright prospects much easier than most others at US Airways. That is besides the point, I want to make this place work NOW.

I mean really, the best thing that could happen to SWA, jetBlue, Spirit, ATA, or Indy, would be for US to fall... But is that thew answer or is doing what needs to be done to remain competitive a better idea. I do not work for them, I work for US, and if you do too then you should feel the same way.

Blaming your relucatance to address reality on the "ghost of managment's past" is fruitless now. It sounds illogical and downright childish when we are faced with termination.

Once again, a football analogy, it is like whining about having to score more points, because of a bad call on the coaches part in the 1st quarter.

"Whaa, it is not fair we need to score again to win, we should be winning already, whaaaa..."

Grow up. Big boys and big girls do what is required of them, that is part of being an adult.

 

[700UW]

Rico,

You just don't get it.

Like I have said and you keep failing to address it, no airline has been saved by employee concessions alone. TWA FIVE Times, still went out of business.

And Bronner and Lakefield are worse then Wolf ever was. At least Wolf told you what he was going to do and he did it and he did it within the parameters of the contract.

Dr Bronner has threatended liquidation in 2002, 2003 and now he is threatening bankruptcy in 2004. So tell me how they are kinder and gentler then any of the previous management.

Bottom line is you are scared and you are willing to throw everyone else under the bus to save your piddly $35,000 a year brazilian barbie jet job.

I don't know if that is sad or just pathetic.

 

[Rico]

And you are scared that if the turnaround works.., you are going to lose your job either way...

At least scared at the loss of the 40k+ a year you pull in, for something that any high school kid could do as well (or better).

Next time you see a Mechanic, thank him/her for lending you their leverage to obtain you such.

(Another example of market forces shifting the workplace reality, and why Mechanics are turning to AMFA to protect THEIR careers)

peace B)

 

[700UW]

You still have not answered the questions.

Why is that? Because you can't dispute what has happened?

You know it is funny, you keep throwing irrelevant arguements into the debate and yet have not answered or rebutted the questions and facts I have presented to you.

Just hang up the white flag all ready Rico. And it it comforting to know that someone cleaning an airplane makes more then you flying your right seat on the brazilian barbie jet, sounds like IAM and Utility envy to me!

Sounds to me like the IAM is better at negotiating then ALPA!