Thanks BaRack and Tree Huggers!

[southwind]

my peeps cant aford beemers and cadillacs....
 
so, if yours are to stupid to know the difference?
 
you tell me what that says about your peeps, not to mention there voting...
 
LMFAO

Sorry about your peeps and their lack of Beemers and Cadillacs. Maybe you need to seek some education, in order to improve your station in life...... loser......Brahahaw

 

[Ms Tree]

I am very curious to know how much influence the oil industry has in all this. I know AAA is in bed with the auto manufactures. I would not be surprised if oil and auto are in bed with each other as well. E is affecting their bottom line. Not like auto and oil have not tried to sink advances before.

 

[Keroseneuser]

As far as I know the ethanol requirements come straight from federal govt. and state govt.   The Auto and oil industry was told "you will do this".     
 
Problem is the side effects that are caused by it.    Nothing but the newest cars are built to handle it.   Consumers are the ones paying the bill for the repairs,  reduced gas mileage, and extra cost of the blend.
 
To top it off govt is now pressing for MORE ethanol to be used in all gas,  which you guessed it,  makes the new cars have the same issues as soon as it changes again.
 
The numbers I would like to see is the comparison between the lost miles per gallon and increased fuel consumption vs. the greenhouse gas output.    I am betting it is negligible.    Also would have to factor in the loss of corn production for food as it is redirected to fuel production.  For reference e-85 is a 20 to 30% loss in MPG and e-10 is 2 to 6% loss depending on the car.     Last I saw the FEDS are pushing hard for e-85 to be the standard.
 
I am betting it will end up being something similar to the Toyota Prius and other electric hybrids.  According to studies the increased toxic waste and disposal, and energy requirements from the production of its hybrid components negates the reduced output from the actual car over its expected life......basically a wash.  Any car its size has basically the same effect on the environment when production is taken into consideration.     The prius will eventually overcome this effect if you drive it long enough.  the numbers I saw is something like 160,000 miles before it actually becomes cleaner than another conventional tech car when production is considered.    Most cars end up in the junk yard before they roll much past 160k on the odometer.  Any prius that does not make it to 160k in its life actually hurts the environment more than a non hybrid.
 
So far all this has done is rearrange the deck chairs on the titanic and cost the consumer more money.   We now have the new federally mandated MPG requirements from Obama coming up in the next few years.....so far the technology does not exist to make it happen.   Wonder how much that is going to cost the consumer when all is said and done? 

 

[xUT]

Some states are worse than others.  I am in the Southeast part of country.  The standard fuel all grades has anywhere from 5% to 10% ethanol depending on time of year.  Closest place to me that sells ethanol free is 15 miles.   According to a consumer driven classic car website that tracks it there are only about 6 stations in my city that carry ethanol free.     Classic cars are especially susceptible to its effects (Pre 1995 or so) thus the websites to find the good stuff.
 
It is much easier to find ethanol free close to the coast due to the boating issues,  but you pay through the nose for it.
 
Chances are that some of the stations that you are thinking is ethanol free actually are not.   Good chance there is a small not obvious sticker somewhere on the pump that says something to the effect of "This fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol"      Some states simply passed a law that all fuel must have it in it and you get no sticker.  If you don't know your states fuel laws you would never know.
 
E-85 so far will always be labeled,  e-10 is hit or miss depending on your area.
 
To date I have never seen ethanol free regular or mid grade anywhere I have bought gas in the last couple of years.  (Most of the southeast states)    Most of the NE states are ahead of us by a couple years on the integration of ethanol into their fuel.  It actually started first in the metropolis areas due to trying to cut back on smog.  (LA, NYC. etc)
 
In 2011 27.3% of US corn production went to ethanol instead of food.   If it continues to increase that is where some are getting nervous about those issues.  

 
Thanks for the inclusion on this topic.
 
I also found a link to Popular Mechanics on how ethanol is damaging small engines as well.
 

Herder estimates that as much as 75 percent of that work is not due to normal wear and tear, but results from the use of ethanol, which can cause rust and carbon deposits inside the engine, dissolve plastic parts and more. And if repair shops like Herder's are already busy, you have to wonder what will happen this summer when gas pumps begin dispensing E15 gasoline; the Environmental Protection Agency recently approved the fuel for cars built after the 2000 model year, but the fuel could hit small engines even harder than E10 does. But now, because of all that ethanol-based wear and tear, a nascent industry is starting up: Ethanol-free gas, distributed in cans for owners of small engines.

 
There are many articles on this topic that supports the fact that ethanol in gas is damaging engines in vehicles as well.
In Komiefornia, a sticker is not required but a 10% ethanol solution is:
Law

 

Low Carbon Fuel Standard
Low Carbon Fuel Standard California's Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS) Program requires a reduction in the carbon intensity of transportation fuels that are sold, supplied, or offered for sale in the state by a minimum of 10% by 2020. The California Air Resources Board (ARB) regulations require transportation fuel producers and importers to meet specified average carbon intensity requirements for fuel. In the regulations, carbon intensity reductions are based on reformulated gasoline mixed with 10% corn-derived ethanol and low-sulfur diesel fuel. Liquefied petroleum gas (propane) is exempt from LCFS requirements, as are non-biomass-based alternative fuels that are supplied in California for use in transportation at an aggregated volume of less than 3.6 million gasoline gallon equivalents per year. Other exemptions apply for transportation fuel used in specific applications. The LCFS Program allows producers and importers to generate, acquire, transfer, bank, borrow, and trade credits. Fuel producers and importers regulated under the LCFS must meet quarterly and annual reporting requirements.
 
 

 
Thanks to you and the OP for bringing this to peoples attention (even if they don't believe it).
Take Care,
B) xUT

 

[Dog Wonder]

And your welcome for people like me stepping up, making our company profitable and the raise your are about to receive.....brought to you without having to pay union dues!
It's ok....I know thanking me is above you!

Pay the man you lost your bet to. Then he may thank you.

 

[southwind]

Pay the man you lost your bet to. Then he may thank you.

Your the type of dog that follows people around, smells, gets on their nerves and gets kicked a lot, aren't you ?

Can't win your own battles, how the hell do you expect to win others....brahahaw

 

[Dog Wonder]

Your the type of dog that gets kicked a lot, aren't you ?

Another bet you lose and won't pay.

 

[Kev3188]

Deadbeat...

 

[xUT]

Pay the man you lost your bet to. Then he may thank you.

 
 

Deadbeat...

 

Attack the messenger instead of the message.
Is that how you guys roll?
B) xUT

 

[Dog Wonder]

The majority of peeps putting fuel in their autos, have problems finding the gas cap! Now, once they do, they can proceed to void the warranty's on their Beemers, Cadillacs and Chargers !

What message do you get?

 

[southwind]

Your a loser!

 

[im back..!!]

 
Hey Stooge, Ford, GM, Chrysler and Toyota will void your warranty if you use E-15 Ethanol fuel in their vehicles regardless of how slow you read the sign on the gas pump.    

Wow, I guess your still bottle fed so let me make this real clear.
 
What I was implying was to "Use the Regular gas"..."Not use the E15"....
 
Do you understand? Then your warranty will not be voided..... Stooge....

 

[Dog Wonder]

Your a loser!

If being a winner involves hating women, any other race but yours, and the less fortunate. I'd rather be a loser.

 

[Knotbuyinit]

Wow, I guess your still bottle fed so let me make this real clear.
 
What I was implying was to "Use the Regular gas"..."Not use the E15"....
 
Do you understand? Then your warranty will not be voided..... Stooge....

Look Bears, we all understand you have the attention span of a slightly retarded sweet potato, but this tread is about E-15 ethanol, not "regular" gas! Maybe it would help if your mom read the treads for you.

 

[Force Majeure]

I don't understand the uproar here. If you have a vehicle that is manufactured prior to 2012, or is not designed to allow flex fuel, than do not use E-15.

Maybe states should require a sicker on the pump that informs the public of this fact?