Swa To Get Mediation In F/a Negotiations

[SWAFA30]

Perhaps senior management at other carriers do make more than those at SWA. The beauty of a free market economy is that if they feel that they are not being paid what they are worth, they have the right to take their skills and go elsewhere in search of better compensation. Just like we are free to bargain in good faith for what we feel is a fair contract. Just because someone else is willing to work for less than what the feel they are worth does not mean my work group has to.

SWA may not 'whine' to the media but they do take every opportunity to tell that very same media how well they treat their employees. By and large SWA does treat it's employees well. However, in the rare instances where SWA does not always deal fairly with it's employees, it is only fair to go the public and set the record straight. I am a BWI based flight attendant and I reiterate that the response from passengers and media who commented on our demonstrations was largely positive. We have no way of knowing if passengers who witnessed our demonstration bemoaned the impact unionization has had on commercial travel to a friend or relative as they walked to their gates...all we know is that when they were standing in front of us many passergers were shaking our hands and wishing us well.

According to the Railway Labor Act which governs our negotiations, only one party is required to make application for a mediator, both parties can jointly make a request but one side can make the request without the others' consent. In our case only party felt a mediator was necessary and that was management. At the time mediation was requested, the union remained willing to stay at the table and bargain without outside help.


The membership contributed additional funding to prepare for negotiations many months before they began. When it was time to go the table, financially, we were ready. The funding and committment are in place to see this through to the end, without requiring an increase in my dues. If a few extra dollars in dues ever became necessary to support this effort, we would consider it money well spent.


Sadly, other airlines have indeed slashed F/A salaries. They are bankrupt or dangerously close, SWA is not. An 'industry leading' contract is not simply about making the most money on the block it is about having the most productive work days, the most humane work rules and securing a living wage that also allows our company to continue to grow and prosper.

 

[JS]

When I travel for business, I have to submit for exact reimbursements -- no per diem. Yet, even with "free" lunches, I've never gotten even close to the per-meal limit of $25. It's usually $5 or $10.

If you're paying $23 for a hamburger and a soft drink, there's something wrong, especially since it's basically out of your pocket. I've taken trips where I fly all day, arrive at night to a hotel and then leave for work early the next morning, and I've never needed to order room service.

The "secret" is to eat a big meal when your choices are better and reasonably priced, and go hungry when your choices are bad and expensive. I would have thought this would be common sense.


Regarding van driver tips -- are you nuts? Why do you do that? It's a FREE service, and it's not a restaurant or bar! Tipping van drivers is just as stupid as tipping the people at Starbucks.

In the morning, the hotel van's passengers are mostly airline crew members. We stop at the airport, and I see just about every crew member hand the driver a buck or two (I say "thank you" and keep on walking). There must be quite a catfight among the van drivers as to who gets the early shift -- $10 or $20 (plus whatever hourly salary) for a measly 5 minute drive is a very profitable job.

 

[Cart Pusher]

When I travel for business, I have to submit for exact reimbursements -- no per diem. Yet, even with "free" lunches, I've never gotten even close to the per-meal limit of $25. It's usually $5 or $10.

If you're paying $23 for a hamburger and a soft drink, there's something wrong, especially since it's basically out of your pocket. I've taken trips where I fly all day, arrive at night to a hotel and then leave for work early the next morning, and I've never needed to order room service.

The "secret" is to eat a big meal when your choices are better and reasonably priced, and go hungry when your choices are bad and expensive. I would have thought this would be common sense.


Regarding van driver tips -- are you nuts? Why do you do that? It's a FREE service, and it's not a restaurant or bar! Tipping van drivers is just as stupid as tipping the people at Starbucks.

In the morning, the hotel van's passengers are mostly airline crew members. We stop at the airport, and I see just about every crew member hand the driver a buck or two (I say "thank you" and keep on walking). There must be quite a catfight among the van drivers as to who gets the early shift -- $10 or $20 (plus whatever hourly salary) for a measly 5 minute drive is a very profitable job.

JS -

When was the last time you were on your feet for nine hours, working, without a chance to have a bite to eat then went to bed hungry? I'm sure you've done it once or twice, and so have many F/A's. None the less, on a regular basis it's not practical or a healthy way of life. When you haven't had a chance to have a decent bite to eat all day and 10pm at night is your last chance to do so, I generally take it. As for a hamburger and soda being $23 dollars, check a room service menu next time you're at a hotel. Add in all the extras (service charge, tax, gratuity) and it quickly reaches the $20 mark. The per diem that airlines pay is usually just enough to cover expenses while we are away.

As for the van drivers tip, it's a customary tip.

 

[wnfan37]

According to the Railway Labor Act which governs our negotiations, only one party is required to make application for a mediator, both parties can jointly make a request but one side can make the request without the others' consent. In our case only party felt a mediator was necessary and that was management. At the time mediation was requested, the union remained willing to stay at the table and bargain without outside help.

Sadly, other airlines have indeed slashed F/A salaries. They are bankrupt or dangerously close, SWA is not. An 'industry leading' contract is not simply about making the most money on the block it is about having the most productive work days, the most humane work rules and securing a living wage that also allows our company to continue to grow and prosper.

1. ah yes, the Railway Labor Act... did we mention that was established in 1916? It's almost 100 years old... and it's just a protector of those who just want to do what the "contract" says. "Sorry, it's not in my contract." Thanks to the RLA, I really believe "labor union" is an oxymoron. this country really needs baseball arbitration.

2. i'd be very intersted to see what an outside mediator thinks of the SWA compensation package. seems like the union didn't want mediation because someone outside would probaby think the offer is quite good, all things in the industy considered.

3. where i do agree with you (gasp!) is finding the balance between a financially reasonable salary for F/A's and the ability for the company to continue to grow and prosper. easier said than done.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

If you arrive at your hotel at around 930pm on the first day and haven't had dinner you order room service at 23.00 for a hamburger and a coke. Second day, breakfast at the hotel restaurant costs you 16.00, lunch at the airport is 8.00, dinner again that evening at the hotel is another 23.00. Third day, breakfast at the hotel again 16.00, lunch at the airport another 8.00

So what's with all the chintzy-looking food bags if you're paying all this money for room service?

 

[Fred Ziffel]

JS:

Regarding van driver tips -- are you nuts? Why do you do that? It's a FREE service, and it's not a restaurant or bar! Tipping van drivers is just as stupid as tipping the people at Starbucks.

Why do we do that? Because we're not all [removed] like someone whose initials I won't mention here.

 

[SWAFA30]

1. ah yes, the Railway Labor Act... did we mention that was established in 1916? It's almost 100 years old... and it's just a protector of those who just want to do what the "contract" says. "Sorry, it's not in my contract." Thanks to the RLA, I really believe "labor union" is an oxymoron. this country really needs baseball arbitration.

2. i'd be very intersted to see what an outside mediator thinks of the SWA compensation package. seems like the union didn't want mediation because someone outside would probaby think the offer is quite good, all things in the industy considered.

3. where i do agree with you (gasp!) is finding the balance between a financially reasonable salary for F/A's and the ability for the company to continue to grow and prosper. easier said than done.

1. Yes, the Railway Labor Act is almost 100 years old. The Civil Rights Act is almost 40 years old and The Declaration of Independence is over 200 years old. What's your point? Just because something is old does not mean that it is no longer of value. The industrial landscape has indeed changed, but the fact that given the opportunity SOME employers will mistreat their workers has not. Your thoughts on Baseball arbitration are interesting but that is currently not the situation we are working under. Contract Thumping goes both ways...just like I can tell my crew scheduler that something is contractually illegal, they can invoke that very same contract to compel me to work in the company's behalf. It takes two parties to sign a contract. Labor AND Management. Takes two to Tango. Again, I point out that SWA is simultaneously among the most unionized and the most profitable carriers on the planet. Southwest Airlines is living proof that unionization and productivity can peacefully coexist. I am going to keep pointing that out until the point is made. That is not an opinon our unionization percentages and our financial record are fact. In some cases in general, unions may not have their company's best interest at heart. However, arguing from the general to the particular...especially in this case is inappropriate.

2. I'm beginning to grow weary of the constant reminders of the condition of the industry at large as it relates to our negotiations. I have nothing but sympathy for my co-workers who have been cast aside as their carriers struggle to keep their financial heads above water. If anything the situation at other carriers makes us want to work that much harder to secure a fair contract so that we can offer those displaced workers a new start at SWA with an actual living wage. Again, I will point out that SWA is not in the same financial position as the rest of the industry. Please find attached a link to our balance sheet

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=LUV

The appointed mediator will see both proposals and then make a recommendation rather than jumping to the conclusion that any proposal that comes from a union is by defintion, ill-conceived, short-sighted, and irresponsible without having ALL the facts. Beyond that the mediators opinions will be given due credence but mediation is not arbitration.

Without seeing any of TWUs proposals is it not a bit presumptive to assume that SWA must be in the right and that TWU must be making outlandish demands? The membership at least has a frame of reference...our current wages when deciding if the proposal is fair. Observers from the outside are simply deciding for themselves what they feel is fair for us to make and forming their opinions accordingly.

3. Why a 'gasp' that there would be a point of agreement? In every single public statement the Flight Attendants of Southwest Airlines have made the point that we are cognizant of the fact that a financially destablized company benefits none of us.

 

[SWAFA30]

So what's with all the chintzy-looking food bags if you're paying all this money for room service?

Because there are no provided crew meals and 6 turns out of 7 we are too busy cleaning the plane to go into the airport to try to find some food. Because sometimes we leave too early or get in too late to take advantage of Room Service. Because some of us are diabetics or vegetarians, or doing Atkins or Jenny Craig or we are Kosher or Muslim or Hindi and carrying our own food is the only way to make sure that appropriate food is available. Next time you see one of those 'chintzy-looking' food bags roll by...why not just stop one of us and ask. I'm sure you'll get an explanation and maybe a bite of last nights leftovers.

 

[Busdrvr]

JS, what makes you think the VAN driver isn't compensated based on the assumption that folks actually tip? How far does 5 bucks an hour go in SFO?

A thought or two on per diem. Do you think maybe per diem also goes to help pay for the phone calls home? But I guess 20K a year AND a little extra to cover the phone bill for helping your kid with her homework is too much to ask.

Drunk pax spills on your uniform? Maybe per diem helps cover the cleaning.

Airport parking?

airport food?

you guys are unreal. It's sickening for you to bash the hard working folks just so you can get a better return on your stock

 

[KCFlyer]

Busdriver - Please don't take my posts as bashing the hard working folks to improve the price of my stock. As a concerned stockholder and customer, I'm only asking questions to feel out the other side of the story. JS on the other hand appears to be "baiting" a little, as I don't believe that SWA is his first choice in airline travel.

 

[JS]

JS, what makes you think the VAN driver isn't compensated based on the assumption that folks actually tip? How far does 5 bucks an hour go in SFO?

A thought or two on per diem. Do you think maybe per diem also goes to help pay for the phone calls home? But I guess 20K a year AND a little extra to cover the phone bill for helping your kid with her homework is too much to ask.

Drunk pax spills on your uniform? Maybe per diem helps cover the cleaning.

Airport parking?

airport food?

you guys are unreal. It's sickening for you to bash the hard working folks just so you can get a better return on your stock

Good point on the per diem covering phone calls and cleaning and such. $48 a day should be enough, no?


Regarding tipping: there are only two jobs in this country where tips are a significant part of the employee's pay: waiter/waitress and bartender. Those two jobs have a lower minimum wage, with the assumption that tips will make up the difference. If the employee's hourly wage plus tips is less than the regular minimum wage, federal labor law requires the employer to make up the difference.

Any other job -- Starbucks counter, van driver, maid, doorman, etc., have the regular minimum wage, meaning tips are not presumed to be a significant portion of the employee's income.

As far as how far 5 bucks an hour goes in San Francisco, that is not my problem. If I had to compensate everyone for a high cost of living, I would be broke.

The tipping culture has gone haywire over the last few years. There are so many people with their hand out, and there are so many fools who throw around dollar bills to them like they're worthless, that service is no better, in my experience.

TIP is supposed to mean To Insure Promptness. Outside of sit-down restaurants, it seems like the placement of a tip jar actually does the opposite. Most recent observation -- a coffee shop at CAK has a tip jar. I walked up to the counter and waited for the two young men behind the counter to finish their conversation. The coffee's price was OK for an airport, but the quality was poor, like gas station coffee in the middle of the night. Let's see -- slow service and bad coffee -- no tip for you!

 

[JS]

Busdriver - Please don't take my posts as bashing the hard working folks to improve the price of my stock. As a concerned stockholder and customer, I'm only asking questions to feel out the other side of the story. JS on the other hand appears to be "baiting" a little, as I don't believe that SWA is his first choice in airline travel.

I'm not trying to "bait", whatever that means. I'm just telling you what I think. Don't like it? Too bad.

You are correct that WN is not my first choice of airline. Some of that is due to the fact that WN doesn't fly to GSP, CLT, AVL, CAE, FLO or ATL (all the airports within a three hour drive of my home, with ATL being on the border). And WN doesn't fly to DFW or LGA, my top two destinations of late.

As I wrote in a USAirways thread, I had to fly from DFW to PHX at the last minute recently. If I didn't have 25,000 DL miles laying around, I probably would have driven to TUL or AUS or whatever and then flown WN to PHX. DFW-PHX is a rip-off, even on the Texas two-step.

 

[operaations]

To all WN flight attendants. Be careful what you wish for when it comes to pay raises. In order to get the maximum pay the Union must give up something else. Like crew rest. Per diem.....401k higher medical costs...longer trips ...shorter lay overs....longer duty day. You name it. Just ask flight attendants from other airlines that have gone through this. I suggest do not follow the leader. Be informed and read the proposal from cover to cover and make an informed decision.

 

[SWAFA30]

To all WN flight attendants. Be careful what you wish for when it comes to pay raises. In order to get the maximum pay the Union must give up something else. Like crew rest. Per diem.....401k higher medical costs...longer trips ...shorter lay overs....longer duty day. You name it. Just ask flight attendants from other airlines that have gone through this. I suggest do not follow the leader. Be informed and read the proposal from cover to cover and make an informed decision.

Operaations,

Careful what you wish for....wise words indeed. With that in mind the Negotiating Team survyed the membership extensively before going to the table to make sure they knew which priorities were of utmost important to us. We know that at some point, negotiating must become about give and take. The recent slow down in hiring has allowed the membership to mature and we are more educated and informed than ever. Our leadership knows what we are and are not willing to give.

 

[Busdrvr]

"Good point on the per diem covering phone calls and cleaning and such. $48 a day should be enough, no?"

Simple math by the uninformed. A "two day trip" isn't 48 hours.

"As far as how far 5 bucks an hour goes in San Francisco, that is not my problem."

Yes it is. Do you want someone who speaks the language driving you? someone with a safe driving record? do you think the hotel should just jack up the cost of the rooms to pay them more? Do you think SWA should raise ticket prices to cover higher, no tipping, payrates for contract drivers (every hotel doesn't have shuttle service)?

"Some of that is due to the fact that WN doesn't fly to GSP, CLT, AVL, CAE, FLO or ATL (all the airports within a three hour drive of my home, "

If you're gonna be cruel, cheap, and classless on the tipping issue, please claim you're from Jersey. The rest of the south doesn't want you making us look bad.


KC,

Whats fair? how much should an F/A make? keep in mind, they risk injury everyday (SWA flies into some of the most turbulent Airports in the US like RNO, ABQ, SLC, LAS). They endure long duty days on thier feet. the must be away from family and friends. they even have tolerate pilots. If the don't do the job right, people can die. What's fair? how much should an experienced OAK based F/A make a year? More than a city bus driver? more than a prison guard? SWA is making money (more than can be said for the state of CA). What's it worth?