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On 3/26/2003 8:39:45 PM KCFlyer wrote:
You have also just cited one of the reasons the other airlines are hurting...you only paid $49 more and got first class amenities. Those are added costs that the airline cannot afford.
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Southwest isn''t the be all end all. But please hold the first class argument...first class isn''t going to save U, UAL, AA or anybody else. The typical domestic narrowbody only has about 12 first class seats to 120+ coach seats. Flying 12 people in first class at fares that are $48 above Southwests fares because they are "Chairmen Preferred" are not going to bring anyone to profitablity...it''s the 130 Wal Mart shoppers in back that are going to have to turn things around. Times have changed a bit....and the ones who can''t recognize that are the "elites" who are flying the deep deep discount fares.
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KC -- you seem to have a real bug about "elites", FC and "amenities". As someone who fits the profile I''m curious -- please explain what, exactly, is so horrifically expensive about maintaining an F cabin and providing upgrades.
It can''t be the loss of seats -- 12 F seats cost the airlines 6 potential coach seats (there isn''t enough extra leg room for another row...) But until they''re flying with load factors in the high 90s that doesn''t cost them anything.
It isn''t the meals. All we get on most flights is a wicker snack basket with packets of pretzels, cookies and chips. Even greedy pigs can''t get more than $5 worth of stuff from that. The so-called meals on trans-cons might cost $20.
It can''t be the flight attendant -- they staff to FAA minimuns that don''t take class of service into account. And I hear that this addled notion of "high density" aircraft to FL is actually going to require an extra FA...
Maybe it''s that we get a full can of soda? Or the free booze? Maybe that adds up to enough to break the airline''s back?
So where is this enormous cost burden? I''d like to get my money''s worth and I''m not seeing $49 here. I think the airline made at least $40 off of that extra $49...
From a cost perspective this is a lot like arguing that pillows and blankets (which go to 10x more people...) are a tremendous burden.
Also -- that CP "elite" up front flies about 50x as often as the Wal-Mart shopper in the back. The extra $49 over all of those tickets goes a long ways towards making the difference between profit and loss. That''s a pretty good reason to be focused on making that person happy with silly little things like an F cabin to upgrade into.
Having that cabin is, in fact, an important differentiator between US & WN. It''s one that the marketing geniuses at Fort Fumble seem bent on turning against themselves by spouting all this drivel about how horribly expensive it is and so forth. They really ought to be playing it up rather than bad mouthing it but they think that we need to hear that it''s worth thousands of dollars (when it plainly isn''t) so that they can continue to believe that there is some sort of justification for their insane full fares.
As for comparative fares -- unlike PineyBob I fly from an airport that is served by both US & WN and I often go to places that are served by both. I occasionally price out a ticket on Southwest and have even been known to buy one. And I''m bigger than he is (taller anyway) so I have no love for a coach seat.
It''s not that bad once in a while. It''s certainly better than taking out a second mortgage to fund a US Airways walk-up ticket.
Usually US has a slightly lower fare advance purchase fare available -- maybe $20 lower. However US
always has lots of much higher fares available (the full fares) that far exceed anything that Southwest ever offers. And I know that if I need to make any changes, especially at the last minute, that those higher fares will be the ones that I''ll be dealing with. And then there''s all the crazy rules to keep track of.
So I try to find fares that are reasonable but less restrictive -- it''s hard work, the bright lights at Fort Fumble go to great lengths to prevent it, but I''m willing to pay a bit more in order to fly on an airline that provides certain "amenities".
If US Airways were to eliminate all of the sales prevention strategies that are currently in place (the fare rules and restrictions), align fares with Southwest''s but at a premium to cover the business friendly aspects of the airline (I think they could get 20% to 30% or so instead of the 900% currently aimed for...), add a few incentives to purchasing full fares,
market the differences and align the workforce to operate appropriately in support of that direction they could kick butt.