Southwest giving perks to business travelers

[KCFlyer]

I hate to say this but the above is an absolute lie. Please provide the real data as I know I looked for fares during that time for some family and friends and UA was definitely not the cheapest ticket "ALWAYS" as you say. Provide some proof or I will continue to consider this a bold face false statement on your behalf.

One thing with you and I we can almost always spar a topic and you often make really good arguments but on this one you are not hitting the target.

mags...As I said - you can't go back to when UAL was in bankruptcy and post their travelocity fares. But they were there. I checked them. And you'll consider it a bold faced lie, regardless if I had screen shots to provide. But you know, what I say here is really no different than you relaying what you "heard" from a "cowboy Southwest pilot".

 

[magsau]

mags...As I said - you can't go back to when UAL was in bankruptcy and post their travelocity fares. But they were there. I checked them. And you'll consider it a bold faced lie, regardless if I had screen shots to provide. But you know, what I say here is really no different than you relaying what you "heard" from a "cowboy Southwest pilot".

Just for starters, the UA transcons with PS were always more expensive than B6. In fact I know that on the SFO/OAK/SJC to JFK roundtrip during our BK UA was MORE expensive than B6 on the dates I checked for travel. So there you go, UA was not "ALWAYS" the lowest cost option on expedia when I checked.

Again if UA was the lowest fare and it sent DL and NW to BK why did it not send AA whom we compete with more on a head to head basis since we share a hub in ORD?????? NW and DL have much less overlap to the UA markets than AA so your analogy is as Busted as Mythbusters episode.

 

[KCFlyer]

Again if UA was the lowest fare and it sent DL and NW to BK why did it not send AA whom we compete with more on a head to head basis since we share a hub in ORD?????? NW and DL have much less overlap to the UA markets than AA so your analogy is as Busted as Mythbusters episode.

You should have checked fares into and out of Atlanta. You should have checked fares into and out of MCI. You should have checked fares into and out of Detroit. You should have checked fares on routes that didn't offer nonstop service on UAL. If you did, you would see that UAL was consistently cheaper out of Atlanta versus Delta with a nonstop. You would have found UAL was consistently cheaper out of MEM compared to an NWA nonstop. And there really are people out there who will opt for a change of planes when the fare is right. UAL apparently had the fare "right" for those folks.

 

[magsau]

Can't go back to UAL's glory days in bankruptcy court, but ANY search with flexible dates in travelocity during that time ALWAYS returned with a UAL fare as being the lowest.

Notice that you said that UAL "ALWAYS" had the lowest fare in travelocity. But then you amended that to check head to head hubs with DAL at ATL and the various carriers at their hubs? So which is it KC, "ALWAYS" or just specific hubs? Why was UAL not the cheapest head to head with B6 and the other carriers on the Bay Area to JFK during BK? WHY OH WHY?

You lied in the original post and are now trying to justify the lie with bogus information. So I checked the bay area to JFK for January 08 and noticed UA was the third most expensive. What on earth does that mean? We are gouging the passengers as you have claimed in the past? So what is it going to be, do we charge too much or too little? Please get your lies straight.

 

[KCFlyer]

Notice that you said that UAL "ALWAYS" had the lowest fare in travelocity. But then you amended that to check head to head hubs with DAL at ATL and the various carriers at their hubs? So which is it KC, "ALWAYS" or just specific hubs? Why was UAL not the cheapest head to head with B6 and the other carriers on the Bay Area to JFK during BK? WHY OH WHY?

You lied in the original post and are now trying to justify the lie with bogus information. So I checked the bay area to JFK for January 08 and noticed UA was the third most expensive. What on earth does that mean? We are gouging the passengers as you have claimed in the past? So what is it going to be, do we charge too much or too little? Please get your lies straight.

Sorry mags, I didn't lie...and I didn't limit my searches back then to specific hubs. MCI isn't a hub. Neither is Nashville. Neither is Omaha.

 

[magsau]

Sorry mags, I didn't lie...and I didn't limit my searches back then to specific hubs. MCI isn't a hub. Neither is Nashville. Neither is Omaha.

But you still said ALWAYS And that was not and is not the case. Also, you have often complained that UAL was taking advantage by charging too much. Sorry KC but the egg on your face is starting to look like and omelet.




So if you you were not lying then you were stretching the truth to the point of absurdity and thus making you look really bad. You generally are able to make good arguments and I enjoy each of us taking to task the issues. Maybe I am just disappointed in you. Thought you might be above making crap up.

 

[KCFlyer]

Also, you have often complained that UAL was taking advantage by charging too much.

Really? Could you provide a link where I said that? I mean, you said I "often complained"...so it should be ever so easy for you to provide that link. Oh... I have said that on routes where there is no competition, the legacy carriers have charged extremely high prices. Heck...I'll give you one (although it wasn't United - I'll wait for the link you post where I said that about United and then apologize when/if you provide it.) - AA between MCI and Dallas. Last minute fares when Vanguard was gone and Delta pulled out of the market were $858 round trip. When they have competition, there's a difference. Price that today.

 

[magsau]

Really? Could you provide a link where I said that? I mean, you said I "often complained"...so it should be ever so easy for you to provide that link. Oh... I have said that on routes where there is no competition, the legacy carriers have charged extremely high prices. Heck...I'll give you one (although it wasn't United - I'll wait for the link you post where I said that about United and then apologize when/if you provide it.) - AA between MCI and Dallas. Last minute fares when Vanguard was gone and Delta pulled out of the market were $858 round trip. When they have competition, there's a difference. Price that today.

So you admit you often said that UAL charged too much. But yet you also contend that UAL charges too little. Wheewh, I feel like I am arguing with my wife.

So riddle me this....Who did DAL, NWA hurt while they were in BK? Would you not have to say they also charged too little since they were in BK? Who were their victims? AA and UAL?????

Ham and Cheese Omelet for you?

 

[KCFlyer]

So you admit you often said that UAL charged too much. But yet you also contend that UAL charges too little. Wheewh, I feel like I am arguing with my wife.

So riddle me this....Who did DAL, NWA hurt while they were in BK? Would you not have to say they also charged too little since they were in BK? Who were their victims? AA and UAL?????

Ham and Cheese Omelet for you?

No, I didn't say that UAL charged too much. I said most legacy carriers charge to much on monopoly routes. If you must know, the only specific airlines I cited were Delta (ATL-BNA), AA (MCI-DFW or DFW--BNA) and US. I didn't cite United, or if I did, it was an extremely rare case (although I honestly can't remember citing UAL specifically at all).

Who did DAL and NWA hurt...all the others...even UAL. Once UAL cleared bankruptcy, do you not agree that they would be in a far stronger position today had DAL or NWA or both had failed? Or would UAL have taken a "there but for the grace of God went I" stance and not move in to pick up any of the slack? Therein lies my point - had UAL not spent 3 years in bankruptcy (or US filed twice in as many years), how much stronger would the remaining industry have been? SOMEBODY would have filled that void. Several somebody's would have filled that void. If that void were to have been filled by the surviving airlines, would other airline industry employees had to take wage and benefit cuts or have their pensions dumped?

 

[magsau]

I didn't cite United, or if I did,

that is very open and Clintonesque

I

f that void were to have been filled by the surviving airlines, would other airline industry employees had to take wage and benefit cuts or have their pensions dumped?

Well you can not just start the time line at the UA BK. How about CAL's various trips through BK? Wouldn't ONE LESS AIRLINE tm. made a difference back then? How about USAirs trips? Funny that only the UA BK hurt the industry in your mind.

As to the wage and benefit cuts bestowed on the employees. You can thank SWA for lowering the bar initially that put this all in motion. So to answer your question. Yes, the other carriers would still be facing difficult times with or without UAL in the industry.

 

[FlyStorms]

And this 2-page conversation about UAL ties back to WN's new boarding...

Huh, interesting.

 

[KCFlyer]

that is very open and Clintonesque

I

Well you can not just start the time line at the UA BK. How about CAL's various trips through BK? Wouldn't ONE LESS AIRLINE tm. made a difference back then? How about USAirs trips? Funny that only the UA BK hurt the industry in your mind.

As to the wage and benefit cuts bestowed on the employees. You can thank SWA for lowering the bar initially that put this all in motion. So to answer your question. Yes, the other carriers would still be facing difficult times with or without UAL in the industry.

Nope mags...CAL shouldn't have been able to hide with bankruptcy way back when. While SOME changes were made to bankruptcy laws because of their first filing, not enough were. I think I addressed US Air trips when I said this

had UAL not spent 3 years in bankruptcy (or US filed twice in as many years), how much stronger would the remaining industry have been?

Should I have said more?

 

[magsau]

And this 2-page conversation about UAL ties back to WN's new boarding...

Huh, interesting.

I asked several times for a new thread to be started by KC but he chose to Lie on this one. Sorry for the thread drift, but his lies have to be challenged.

 

[KCFlyer]

I asked several times for a new thread to be started by KC but he chose to Lie on this one. Sorry for the thread drift, but his lies have to be challenged.

I didn't lie mags. You want an apology...okay I said ALWAYS in one thread. What I should have said was "consistently". That means that while they weren't lowest on ALL routes, they were consistently the lowest on the routes I checked. And that ain't much better, but if it makes you happy...

 

[JS]

Anyways.... even if Southwest did cause wages at the legacy carriers to fall, so what? It's called competition. Mags is implying that the airlines should collude with another to prop up prices (and wages). Too bad for Mags that Congress and 98% of the public disagree.