Southwest Airline To Begin Pittsburgh Service

[deano]

Thanks, deano. Here's all I've been able to find from the latest updates:

Kelly said Southwest would announce its Pittsburgh schedule and fares before April. He said Southwest would begin with fewer than five gates and a "modest" number of daily flights. The airline typically begins in new cities with one or two gates and 10 to 15 flights.

From AP update #3

Jim

[post="235957"][/post]​

On Channel four in Pit they just reported that LUV said that it’s potential for growth in Pit is "enormous" even more some than in Philly. Funny how some posters not living in Pit wrote this town off....

 

[deano]

Or maybe they could start interplanetary travel.

[post="235961"][/post]​

Now THAT is FUNNY!!

 

[funguy2]

BoeingBoy: I was just looking for that quote! I knew I had read it...

If you've ever listened to one of these conference calls, you know how they go:

Reporter: How many gates/flights will you operate at PIT?

CEO: We have made no final determination yet, but it would probably be fewer than five

Reporter: How does this compare to a typical new city?

CEO: Typically we start with one or two gates and 10 to 15 flights...

(This is not a transcript, just an example of how a conference call turns into a news article.)

So, based on my example, I put more stock in the "less than 5 gates" vs. the "1-2 gates and 10-15 flights" comment... Why would he say "less than 5" instead of "less than 3" if a typical station opens with 1 to 2 gates? This makes me believe it will be closer to 3 or 4.

I also suspect we will see a phased expansion like we did with PHL.

Lastly, I think some of the future PIT/PHL/MDW expansion will come from redeploying aircraft from "less desirable" flights... I suspect there will be further adjustments like the one done last year where intra-Texas and other primarily short-haul service was re-evaluated... For example, DAL-HOU/IAH went from 32 flights/day to 28 flights/day. I think Southwest can make those kinds of moves across its system, particularly in markets short haul markets where they often have less than 1 flight every 2 hours... PHX-LAX, DAL-HOU, MDW-MCI, LAX-SJC, LAX-OAK, OAK-SAN, OAK-LAS, LAS-LAX, LAS-ONT, LAS-SAN all come to mind as examples... Southwest could probably decrease service in many of these markets by one or two flights without losing market share or skipping a beat, thus appearing to expand faster than aircraft deliveries would otherwise allow.

 

[funguy2]

On Channel four in Pit they just reported that LUV said that it’s potential for growth in Pit is "enormous" even more some than in Philly. Funny how some posters not living in Pit wrote this town off....

[post="235965"][/post]​

I don't know if people "wrote off" PIT. I think there is significant demand for air travel in PIT and western PA. But maybe a hub is not the best way to satisfy that demand... That was found to be the case in RDU, BNA, CMH, MCI, and others. Air service at PIT is likely to become much more competitive... like the markets noted above.

 

[BoeingBoy]

funguy,

I suspect you're right about LUV "tweaking" their schedule like last year. Not to pick a bone with mweiss, but there's more to LUV's ability to keep costs down than just increases in size. One big place is adding longer haul and reducing short-haul where it makes sense. LUV's average stage length is pretty short - presumably largely due to their roots as a short haul carrier. If they can increase the average stage length by 50% over time - which would still leave them well behing B6 - it will have a pretty significant effect on their unit costs (or offset higher costs elsewhere, like employee pay, fuel price, etc).

Jim

 

[mweiss]

Hey, don't get me wrong, Jim, I agree with you. But in the long run, WN's big competition will be other LCCs, and that's where the seniority will begin to bite them.

FWIW, I don't think we'll see this happen in the next few years, either. But that doesn't mean that the day isn't approaching.

 

[BoeingBoy]

But in the long run, WN's big competition will be other LCCs, and that's where the seniority will begin to bite them.

[post="235978"][/post]​

Absolutely right, Michael. Of course, the proof is always in the pudding. So far, there hasn't been an LCC that's survived long enough to seriously put a dent in LUV - B6 may be the exception that proves the rule, but time will tell.

On another note (and with a nod to your "interplanetary service" comment), I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see LUV in international markets. There's already comments about the ATA code-share being a "back door" way into HI, MEX, Caribbean service. The 7E7 could make an interesting addition to LUV's fleet down the road - an efficient airplane for an efficient carrier.

Jim

 

[trvlr64]

Didn't US Airways Gofare all of it 30 non-stop markets out of PIT? Wasn't this suppose to keep the likes of Southwest out of PIT?

[post="235869"][/post]​

The only GO FARES out of PIT I found was to FLL. PIT doesn't have the options that PHL has. But we will now with WN arriving.

 

[funguy2]

Absolutely right, Michael. Of course, the proof is always in the pudding. So far, there hasn't been an LCC that's survived long enough to seriously put a dent in LUV - B6 may be the exception that proves the rule, but time will tell.

I think its more than just jetBlue. Although jetBlue thus far seems formidable... I think the current generation of LCC's, including AirTran, America West, Frontier, and Spirit, are the most formidable yet (in terms of financing, organization, and operational know-how). Now, I won't say all these guys will be around forever, but its now becoming clearer that when the LCC's run into legacies as a group, they will have to consolidate as well. I think the "bidding war" for ATA and the "turf war" (WN and FL at BWI, B6 and HP on transcons, etc) occuring between the LCC's is proof that we are beginning to see this. And, we have Virgin America presumably waiting for the right time to enter the market. If they do, they will be another well funded, well publicized start-up airline.

If a legacy, like US Airways, fails, this will releive the pressure of the LCC's fighting among themselves as they help soak up the viable markets left behind by the failed carrier... but it will only be a matter of time before they begin to butt heads again, as they are now.

 

[BoeingBoy]

funguy,

I had sorta put AirTran and AWA in a separate catagory - call it a low cost hub/spoke business model with the frills of F/C. With their "in between" cost structure, I see them as more in the legacy camp than a true LCC competitor (not by age but by business model). The others (and these two to a degree) all compete in the "true" LCC arena, together with the likes of Hooters Air.

But I agree, it's not just B6. They just happen to be the current "darling" and have the cost structure (so far) to give LUV a run for their money as they grow.

Jim

Jim

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Dude! Don't worrry, Seth is out there to save USAirways!

Better break out the resume/WN's coming and they will blow you away/Southwest Air is coming to town...

 

[ClueByFour]

Just as a note, http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05006/437919.stm indicates that Southwest did not get a dime of public funds, and it even turned down the standard marketing assistance that PIT offers to all new entrant carriers.

Whoa.

 

[motnot]

funguy,

I had sorta put AirTran and AWA in a separate catagory - call it a low cost hub/spoke business model with the frills of F/C. With their "in between" cost structure, I see them as more in the legacy camp than a true LCC competitor (not by age but by business model).

[post="236011"][/post]​

It's not their cost structure that's in-between, but rather the service/busines model. AWA actually has lower unit costs than LUV (but AirTran does not).

 

[funguy2]

Well, here's your comparison
Airline - 3Q04 CASM - stage length - 3Q04 CASM ex fuel
AirTran - 8.65c - not listed, my guess is 500-600 miles - 6.48c
AWA - 7.92c - 1067mi - 6.14c
jetBlue - 6.08c - 1383mi - not listed, my calculation is 4.67c
Southwest - 7.61c - 576mi - 6.34c

And for comparison:
American - 9.68c - not listed, my guess >1300mi - not listed, my calc 8.38c
Continental - 9.48c - 1358mi - 7.57c
US Airways - 11.59c - 801mi - 9.74c

Also, I have seen a now dated Unisys report which showed Southwest's stage adjusted CASM to be a slightly less than jetBlue's at jetBlue's stage length.

While you are right that AWA and AirTran have slightly higher CASM, they are certainly less than the legacies. Thier business models and CASM put them in-between... But they clearly want to be the "high end of the LCC's" and not the "low-end of the legacies"

 

[wnbubbleboy]

I wonder if they will do like they did in PHL.
Not hire locals and import all of there help.

[post="235911"][/post]​

Did it BWI too in '93. It's in the rampers contract. Alot of locals in BWI now. Also, many people waiting to get back to PIT. I have been waiting 11 years. I was laid off from U and had to relocate. Of course you get a chance to go home your going to go. Sorry but alot of people transfering in ARE locals. They just had to move away from home for a while. Now I can park my car and FLY to BWI from PIT. That's my pay back for having to leave home for so long. T/S if you don't like it but any one here now that is from Pittsburgh deserves a chance to go home.