Some thoughts before tomorrow's protest

[HPearlyretiree]

Let's extend your logic.

There are tons of folks willing to do CEO and veep work for much less than what current CEO's and veeps make.


Well, lets explain your Illogic.

There are very few CEO jobs, and not too many people are gonna make it to that point because the qualifications are steep, and the opportunities are few. There are lots of ramper jobs and lots of people that have the basic skills necessary to be a ramper.

Oh, and whoever posted all the salaries of CEO's, how about posting how much the Union heads make? Show a bit of balance.


And Freedom, you sound like a good guy, but learn how to write and how to spell, people will take you much more seriously in your professional life. That is not sniping, just some advice, people judge you by how you communicate and how you express your argument. Even if you have the most compelling argument, if you can't communicate well, no one will take you seriously. Its another one of those "life is unfair" situations.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Let's extend your logic.

There are tons of folks willing to do CEO and veep work for much less than what current CEO's and veeps make.
Well, lets explain your Illogic.

There are very few CEO jobs, and not too many people are gonna make it to that point because the qualifications are steep, and the opportunities are few. There are lots of ramper jobs and lots of people that have the basic skills necessary to be a ramper.

Oh, and whoever posted all the salaries of CEO's, how about posting how much the Union heads make? Show a bit of balance.
And Freedom, you sound like a good guy, but learn how to write and how to spell, people will take you much more seriously in your professional life. That is not sniping, just some advice, people judge you by how you communicate and how you express your argument. Even if you have the most compelling argument, if you can't communicate well, no one will take you seriously. Its another one of those "life is unfair" situations.

You got to wipe your LIPS, There is a bunch of Brown stuff on it, and wipe your nose too!

 

[freedom]

And Freedom, you sound like a good guy, but learn how to write and how to spell, people will take you much more seriously in your professional life. That is not sniping, just some advice, people judge you by how you communicate and how you express your argument. Even if you have the most compelling argument, if you can't communicate well, no one will take you seriously. Its another one of those "life is unfair" situations.


Well your quite right , my spelling and grammar are rather lax , lazy is more like it . I can however write , i just happen to leave out certain words that link things together lol ...
What can i say , i just don't care enough .... i have the gift of having a rather large venacular ...but that comes with the trade off of having poor spelling ... And while i could spell check everything i write , it would be too much effort for me ..
I tend to think that my arguments are written well enough to surpass the spelling , that's why many of the words i use are small rather than large lol .. Althou sometimes i do take time to check some of my spelling , as in the very first post in this thread .
:huh:

 

[HPearlyretiree]

You got to wipe your LIPS, There is a bunch of Brown stuff on it, and wipe your nose too!

Wow, such a well thought out and devastating rebuttal.

You will go far with that attitude.

/sarcasm

 

[as the prop turns]

I fly an airplane and made $7.21 per hour on duty last year. $9.25 would be a great pay raise.

THEY have taken one of the most respected and desired professions and moved it into the gutter.
From the highest paid in the industry to the lowest. We are sitting on the most lucrative markets in the industry.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM!!

Let's extend your logic.

There are tons of folks willing to do CEO and veep work for much less than what current CEO's and veeps make.
Well, lets explain your Illogic.

There are very few CEO jobs, and not too many people are gonna make it to that point because the qualifications are steep, and the opportunities are few. There are lots of ramper jobs and lots of people that have the basic skills necessary to be a ramper.

Oh, and whoever posted all the salaries of CEO's, how about posting how much the Union heads make? Show a bit of balance.
And Freedom, you sound like a good guy, but learn how to write and how to spell, people will take you much more seriously in your professional life. That is not sniping, just some advice, people judge you by how you communicate and how you express your argument. Even if you have the most compelling argument, if you can't communicate well, no one will take you seriously. Its another one of those "life is unfair" situations.

Just a question for you HPretiree...How many years of experience did you have with HP until you retired?

 

[luvn737s]

Why does anyone think they can bully management into doing things their way? Can anyone point to recent successes with this strategy?

Until management loses market share in a lucrative industry and those losses are tied directly to insufficient labor, things won't improve for workers. Historically, organized labor's gains were tied to the industrial revolution and wartime output necessity, not their "resolve".

Specifically in the airline industry, the rapid expansion of the industry in the late 50's and early 60's fueled labors greatest gains. They have yet to recapture the percentage gains made in those times, and given the poor return on investment in the airline business, there's little hope they will in the future.

So if walking around chanting variations on "What do we want?..." makes you feel better, then by all means enjoy the nice weather. But don't have too high expectations from your picket sign.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

THEY have taken one of the most respected and desired professions and moved it into the gutter.
From the highest paid in the industry to the lowest. We are sitting on the most lucrative markets in the industry.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM!!
Just a question for you HPretiree...How many years of experience did you have with HP until you retired?

Over 14 years, and have been working in my field for about 25 years. I had worked as a financial analyst while in college and came to AWA while still in school. I got paid terribly at AWA, I knew the score, I knew what my job was worth at other places. So, I retired and went out and made lots more money, at some good places and at some terrible places. I currently have a job with a great title and responsibilities, but the pay is below what the market is, I know that, accept that and am OK with it. The experience I am getting is extremely valuable to me, and I work in a great environment and I have lots of autonomy.

What I don't understand is that if everyone wants rampers to make more money, where is limit set at? Should rampers make more than teachers? engineers? flight attendants? nurses? pilots? Ramper jobs have never been high paying jobs, the market won't allow for that, its not the result of evil people wanting to hurt you, its market reality.

The industry has changed, people pay less to fly. The airlines of today aren't the regulated airlines of the 1960's. The revenue is not as predictable as it once was. Economies change; waving your fist at economic changes and yelling won't change things. Every individual worker has to to what is necessary so that they can be earning the money they want. Its about personal responsibility, want to make more money? Then do what you need to get the job that you want to work that pays what you want.

I hate to sound cold, but that is how life is these days, you can adapt to the market, or be left behind, the world ain't fair. Seriously, I wish everyone the best, I want US employees to make a fair wage for their position that doesn't cripple the airline, but is in line with the marketplace, but its riding a knife edge getting it right.

 

[freedom]

Over 14 years, and have been working in my field for about 25 years. I had worked as a financial analyst while in college and came to AWA while still in school. I got paid terribly at AWA, I knew the score, I knew what my job was worth at other places. So, I retired and went out and made lots more money, at some good places and at some terrible places.

What I don't understand is that if everyone wants rampers to make more money, where is limit set at? Should rampers make more than teachers? engineers? flight attendants? nurses? pilots? Ramper jobs have never been high paying jobs, the market won't allow for that, its not the result of evil people wanting to hurt you, its market reality.

The industry has changed, people pay less to fly. The airlines of today aren't the regulated airlines of the 1960's. The revenue is not as predictable as it once was. Economies change; waving your fist at economic changes and yelling won't change things. Every individual worker has to to what is necessary so that they can be earning the money they want. Its about personal responsibility, want to make more money? Then do what you need to get the job that you want to work that pays what you want.

I hate to sound cold, but that is how life is these days, you can adapt to the market, or be left behind, the world ain't fair. Seriously, I wish everyone the best, I want US employees to make a fair wage for their position that doesn't cripple the airline, but is in line with the marketplace, but its riding a knife edge getting it right.

Hmm you don't seem to understand , what we are actually doing is called "asking for a raise " i'm sure if you work in a white collar industry you've tried doing that before ,sometimes you get your raise and other times you don't , the only difference here is that we are doing it enmass and thus have more barging power ... There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for a raise , while you may not feel we deserve one , we do .I wouldn't even say we're asking for a whole lot , no one is suggesting we make more than say southwest ramp workers , so what we are asking IS within the realm of possiblity .
And at the end of the day , if we don't win , oh well no skin off of our backs .Rather than just give up and try to get a new job ,i advocate trying to get better pay , and if we can't, we bring the company down , and then go somewhere else and get new jobs ... i mean really , those of us on the WEST get paid so lousy ,if we can't get rasises we might as well scuttle the ship and THEN abandon it .I don't mean so sound vindictive or bitter , but it's just logic , we get paid so little that if our company went down , we could get jobs that pay the same or better tomorrow ...so what do we have to lose? absolutely nothing . If you must retreat burn your bridges .

 

[barbeetantrums]

Hmm you don't seem to understand , what we are actually doing is called "asking for a raise " i'm sure if you work in a white collar industry you've tried doing that before ,sometimes you get your raise and other times you don't , the only difference here is that we are doing it enmass and thus have more barging power ... There's absolutely nothing wrong with asking for a raise , while you may not feel we deserve one , we do .I wouldn't even say we're asking for a whole lot , no one is suggesting we make more than say southwest ramp workers , so what we are asking IS within the realm of possiblity .
And at the end of the day , if we don't win , oh well no skin off of our backs .Rather than just give up and try to get a new job ,i advocate trying to get better pay , and if we can't, we bring the company down , and then go somewhere else and get new jobs ... i mean really , those of us on the WEST get paid so lousy ,if we can't get rasises we might as well scuttle the ship and THEN abandon it .I don't mean so sound vindictive or bitter , but it's just logic , we get paid so little that if our company went down , we could get jobs that pay the same or better tomorrow ...so what do we have to lose? absolutely nothing . If you must retreat burn your bridges .

Well said. My wdemandish, and that of many others, is for pay parity between the same workgroup. East pilots and West pilots. West f/a and East f/a. West mechanics and East mechanics. West fleet and East fleet. Hubs and large stations and small stations. Parity is all I ask for. Give me that and I will shut the f up.

Let me add this: I also demand that no more fleet at small stations are outsourced.

 

[BuffaloJoe]

I got paid terribly at AWA, I knew the score, I knew what my job was worth at other places. So, I retired and went out and made lots more money, at some good places and at some terrible places. I currently have a job with a great title and responsibilities,

In english, YOU QUIT! You just stated it above, not retiree, you QUIT! After College I worked with the County for 10 years and I quit. I'll get a pension from them when I am 65. But at age 31 I QUIT, not retired!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

In english, YOU QUIT! You just stated it above, not retiree, you QUIT! After College I worked with the County for 10 years and I quit. I'll get a pension from them when I am 65. But at age 31 I QUIT, not retired!

No, I took early retirement and found a job doing the exact same thing for 2X the salary.

I have flight bennies, its nice, though lately I have paid for my tickets when flying.