some new routes LAX, JFK and MIA

surprisingly, DL's inferior product has allowed it to increase its share of the LGA/JFK market from 20-30% of passengers and 21 to 32% of revenue over the past 5 years while AA's share of both has dropped by 7 points over the same time period. DL is now significantly larger than AA in NYC; revenue statistics since DL's slot swap was completed in July are not yet publicly available but DL's domestic boardings from LGA and JFK are now almost twice as high as AA's.

DL is now operating a half dozen large RJ flights per day between LGA and DFW, hourly weekday service to ORD that has given them about half of the local market revenue that AA has, and has somewhere around a half dozen flights per day scheduled between LGA and MIA by next summer, a market that DL hasn't even been operating a year.

I'm sure LAX will be different, though.

Oh, DL is the largest airline in the RDU market and the largest network carrier at BNA. And WN carries almost twice as many passengers between BNA and LAX as AA at average fares that are within a few percent of AA's even though WN has no first class cabin. Apparently WN's service is of an equally high quality as AA's.

It isn't terribly surprising that DL isn't going to roll over and let AA walk into a market (LAX-RDU) in which DL has carried the majority of passengers and revenue for years and in the process won't mind taking advantage of AA's attempt to start LAX-RDU service to add yet another route in a market where AA has been the dominant carrier for years.

I wouldn't be so quick to claim victory in this little spat just yet.

And DL has added service into JFK-DUB, KE added frequencies into DFW-ICN..... what other routes has AA added that weren't met by a competitive response?

and yet somehow people didn't want to believe me when I said that AA would have a hard time expanding into new markets while other carriers continue to expand into AA's key markets.

And AA has never said they intend to have costs even 1% lower than DL's so I'm not sure where AA fans here or elsewhere think AA will end up in a position where they can start taking back markets that DL has taken from AA.
 
and to highlight the intense rivalry between AA and UA, AA is leasing slots to VX to start EWR-LAX and SFO service right in UA's NE backyard. Porter of Canada might be forced to trim its operation to EWR a bit which could help UA.

Forcing UA to trim its operation at EWR and injecting new competition from a low cost carrier will certainly hurt UA but other than saving AA $25M (a tiny fraction of 1% of AA's annual revenues) how does this move help AA other than by hurting its most direct competitor?

As a reminder, UA is adding HOURLY service between EWR and LAX/SFO in response to VX's arrival into the market.

I'll let Dallas News' aviation blog provide the play by play.

American Airlines is asking the U.S. Bankruptcy Court to let it lease 15 takeoff and landing slots at Newark Liberty International Airport to Virgin America.
And, as it turns out, 10 of the slots are currently leased to United Airlines and four are leased to Canadian carrier Porter Airlines. The other slot is currently operated by American.
Virgin America has long wanted to get into Newark, but didn’t have the slots. It announced Dec. 10 that it would begin Newark service on April 2 with three round trips to Los Angeles and three round trips to San Francisco.
But it didn’t say the source of the operating slots at the slot-controlled Newark airport. Now we know.
Virgin will pay $10,000 a month for each slot, the same rate that United and Porter are now paying. It will also lease one of the three Newark gates that American is surrendering. American will continue to operate from three other Newark gates.
In its Wednesday evening filing, American asked the court to approve its rejection of the United and Porter slot leases as of Saturday, March 30. The slots then go to Virgin America on Sunday, March 31, two days before VA begins Newark flights.
We also learn from the filing that American actually signed the agreement to lease the slots to Virgin America on Sept. 28, 2012. We also learn that American (actually subsidiary American Eagle) leased the slots to United and Porter in 2008, with the leases to expire in 2019.
United, of course, is the big dog at Newark, with about 200 departures a day or so. Porter operates 10 departures a day there, including eight to its Toronto home base.
The surrender of three gates as of Dec. 31, 2012, will save American about $25.4 million by the gate lease ends on Dec. 31, 2018, the carrier said. That should exceed “any potential rejection damages” associated with the United and Porter leases, American said.
 
Delta is like the Walmart in the industry, only United is much larger, AA and United offer a much better product. Aeroflot maybe a better comparison.
 
If it makes you feel better by thinking that DL is some low-class retailer, then go right ahead.
You might do well to consider, however, that the greatest similarity between DL and Wal-Mart is that that they are both intensely competitive and they are profitable, which I believe is what companies are supposed to be.
DL gets better revenue for the services it provides than AA (not necessarily what Wal-Mart does well) and DL employees are paid better than average compared to their peers, also distinctly un- Wal-Mart.
The real difference between DL and the rest of the legacy carriers in the US is that when DL went into BK, it peered deep into its soul and into the soul of the industry and addressed those problems that continually have destroyed airlines in the US: inability to compete w/ low(er) fare carriers, inability to grow revenue, high and growing fuel costs, high debt and lack of support from investors, and above all, continuous labor discord esp. at the legacy carriers. DL has addressed all of those issues and more – and that is why DL has the largest market cap among US airlines and continues to adapt and grow – often at the expense of other carriers.

AA is typical of most legacy carriers that are still stuck in the mindset of the regulated era where the concept of being competitive with lower fare carriers barely existed and where labor disputes had more influence on the future of the company than any other factor.

Specific to this little conversation, the reason why we are discussing BNA and RDU to LAX is because AA walked away from those hubs and failed to maintain even the local market for AA while DL gained the top network carrier revenue position in both cities.

AA tried to start a flight in a market which DL had already scheduled to fly – as it has for several years – in a market where DL is the largest carrier. DL responded by adding BNA-LAX service amid reports that DL is succeeding in targeting entertainment industry traffic in both the transcons and BNA; it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that it is precisely because DL has been running a much better than average operation than the rest of the industry (and we don’t even need to talk about what has gone on at AA in the past 6 months) that DL has found success in wrestling key accounts away from AA. It doesn’t hurt DL’s cause that they have been showing $1.5B plus profits per year while AA’s average losses have been about that amount. DL's war chest is full and overflowing.

I can thoroughly understand your pride in AA and your desire to see her succeed again. But when I see things like AA essentially making it possible for VX to start service into UA’s largest hub, I can’t help but believe that AA is nowhere near ready to turn the corner. Neither AA or UA are in any great shape right now – and beating each other up will only solicit a stronger response from the other; we need only look at LAX-PVG to see how well that is working for both carriers. Meanwhile, DL carries more revenue on its sole LAX-NRT flight than AA carries on both of its LAX-Asia flights and almost as much as both of UA’s flights.
I’m not sure why some people including AA mgmt can’t figure out what it takes to succeed but until they do....

BTW, you wanna take a look at who started this little add-on discussion about BNA?

Oh, and DL was a larger company than UA in the 3rd quarter based on revenues. Based on investor guidance which both DAL and UAL have provided, DL will probably also surpass UA in the 4th quarter.
DL might soon be reclassified as the world's largest airline.

Wal-Mart ranks where among the world's largest businesses?
 
Delta is like the Walmart in the industry, only United is much larger, AA and United offer a much better product. Aeroflot maybe a better comparison.

Really? You must not fly DL very often then. Sure it is no Emirates or Singapore Airlines but in my experience the on-board service and amenities DL offers are either competitive or far exceed those of other US carriers. DL was the first US carrier to have fully flat seating in business class to the 777-200LR in February 2008; DL offers the most on-demand seat back entertainment on many flights, and the most domestic wi-fi as a few examples. Furthermore DL Connection RJ service has been enhanced to provide identical service offerings to mainline, they offer meals, china, and real glassware in F just like you would on a larger Delta Jet.

While DL has older aircraft they have been refurbished and are for the most part adequate. Nothing state of the art but adequate. They took the dumpy NW 320/319 aircraft and spruced them up with new blue leather seat covers, wifi, the MD-88s all have power and wifi too.Seriously US has far inferior offerings and service than DL, they don't serve meals in first class on flights under four hours, they lack the decency to have overhead entertainment and audio programming, and many flights don't even have real glassware and china mugs in F. Good luck finding a power outlet too, unless you are on their international aircraft and limited Gogo wifi. US is far behind the pack. Even domestically UA is inferior to DL. Seriously no one is saying DL is Emirates Singapore Airlines, SWISS or another world class carrier but its ludicrous to suggest DL is the Wal-Mart of the skies. Go fly Allegiant, Spirit or USAIR and you'll see for yourself.

Josh
 
I have flown Delta domestically quite a bit in the last few years, (was commuting from ATL for a few years) but I prefer AA and United, especially the 3 class international, i did notice Delta had more seat back screens, but i usually use my i-pad. AA and United have had the flat beds since the early 2000s in the First Class Suites. Delta is ok for domestic especially if your commuting to ATL. Going to Europe Ill take United or AA anyday!
 
Well then DL should be very grateful that they found 164,571,529 passengers in 2012 who were willing to PAY for their services.

If you are an airline employee, the chances of you flying premium class transoceanic on another carrier besides your employer are not real high.

Probably the reason why you like commuting on DL from ATL is because they have mainline jets to all of AA's hubs which AA does not necessarily have.
 
Kev3188 said:
The NW Airbii were many things. "Dumpy" wasn't one of 'em...
Compared to any PM-DL aircraft they certainly were based on the condition/cosmetics of the interior. I mean those were their "newer" aircraft.

Josh
 

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