Snooze U Lose

[GroundedBoricua]

Well I'm going to chip in on this cause I can't stand the bulls :censored: t . In this case EVERYONE was at fault. But I blame more the F :censored: G RAT that reported her.

JetBlue Flight Attendant Fired For Fatigue

Livingston said she finally decided to go ahead and work the flight home, as it seemed to be the easiest solution for everyone involved.


Three weeks later, Livingston’s supervisor notified her of a report from a fellow crewmember that stated Livingston had been sleeping on one of the jumpseats in the back galley during the flight back to Long Beach on February 18. Sleeping on the jumpseat is a fireable offense at JetBlue. Subsequently, Livingston was placed on suspension pending an investigation.

Since she was the lead she had to make a choice. Sometimes the easiest solution is not the best. I would bet she pissed off one of her fellow crewmembers and that was the lowlife that turned her in even if she was sleeping or not. He or she is just a punk :rant:

I think this is cruel what they did with this Wilson girl.

JetBlue flight attendant Carolyn Livingston was fired last week after being bullied into working a flight that put her over the FAA maximum flight attendant duty period.

ok, Is this Wilson or Livingston?.... One has to wonder WHO is doing the Sleeping around here....

Who cares if it was Wilson, Livingston, Jackson , or Albaradejo what went on here was all wrong

You have to keep in mind that it's not just JetBlue corporate policy that forbids sleeping on the jumpseat. It's a Federal Air Regulation (FAR). Working crew members are not to supposed to sleep while on duty--except during specified crew rest periods (as in International) and in passenger seats or bunks designated for crew rest. I may be wrong about this, but I think that crew rest is only allowed where FAA minimum crew can continue to work while one or more crew members rest--i.e., flight is staffed with more than minimum crew.

Your right up to certain grounds, But they weren't going international and they were flying at minimum crew.

Intimidated into working the flight by a gate agent?
Pah-leeze! This woman is on the aircraft for "your saftey" and she's "intimidated" by a gate agent? I hope nothing serious....or even NOT serious happens on any of her flights. She more than likely wouldnt be able to deal with it.

Violation of 14 hours? No, not really. FAR's state f/a's can not be SCHEDULED over 14 hours. Actual vs. scheduled leaves some breathing room.

No rooms in FLL? I dont find that hard to believe. Sleep in the boarding area, or d/h to JFK? Hmmmm....I think I'd opt for the d/h.

To many holes in this story. No pity here.

You know I do pity sometimes people who don't have the cojones to say no and stand on it, cause they are just to good harted they get suckered. As for to many holes, a big YES. She had to say NO and stand on it even if her fellow crewmembers wanted to work back. If you are already 12 hours on duty and your flight is 6 hours more not including bording and taxi, you know your going illegal no matter what. And if she would of standed at NO and got fired she has a good case in court.

Why I say she got suckered, cause JFK is not the closest hotel room. There had to be 6 hotel rooms in the FLL,MIA,PBI,etc area, thats just Bulls :censored: t. But your right I would D/H to JFK for the hotel room.

As for there was no one to do the flight, Bulls :censored: t again. Quick call 4 reserves from FLL (Remember FLL is a base for B6), Airport reserves from FLL or JFK, could had solved the problem as well.

And the last mess up in this hole is, Where are the cojones of the flight deck??? :unsure: Me as a captain, would not want a crew that is tired and can't perform well in the event of an emergency. And if it was the same flight crew that flew from LGB that wanted or actually flew back, I do not want to get on their plane.

I just find it odd that she happened to 'fall asleep' (yet no one working on the flight says she was) and the company fired her.

Well I have never seen someone step foward and say "ohh I'm the dirty rat" so no one is going to say that. And if the company framed her, well unfortunatly thats what happens when you don't keep your grounds and stick to it. Where I grew up in the Bronx, you had to be strong and have your cojones well placed, if not, you would get your ass kicked every day at school and will run over anybody that is weak. I apply this to my daily life. And thats exactly what happened here. I wish her well and good luck. As for the Rat and the supervisor, Both of you are scumbags and f :censored: g a :censored: s.

 

[jimntx]

Your right up to certain grounds, But they weren't going international and they were flying at minimum crew.

Which was exactly my point. They were not International, they were at minimum crew; so, sleeping on duty is forbidden by FAR. No excuses, no exceptions.

And, for all anyone knows, it could have been a passenger who reported it. Or, there could have been an FAA employee on the plane. Something similar happened at AA. An FAA employee was flying as a passenger and observed a f/a knitting on the jumpseat for a long period. It was reported to the FAA and both the company and the f/a were fined.

FARs prohibit any activity on duty--and particularly while seated on the jumpseat--that prevents a f/a from paying attention to what is going on in the cabin. Plus, every working f/a is supposed to do a cabin walk-through every 15 minutes for the duration of the flight.

Technically, the only reading allowed while on the jumpseat is the F/A Safety Manual. (A gripping, inspirational book. Read it with someone you love. ) Talk about something that would put me to sleep!

 

[GroundedBoricua]

Which was exactly my point. They were not International, they were at minimum crew; so, sleeping on duty is forbidden by FAR. No excuses, no exceptions.

And, for all anyone knows, it could have been a passenger who reported it. Or, there could have been an FAA employee on the plane. Something similar happened at AA. An FAA employee was flying as a passenger and observed a f/a knitting on the jumpseat for a long period. It was reported to the FAA and both the company and the f/a were fined.

Well I really wan't defending her for sleeping. And the FAR is sleeping on the jumpseat. You can't sleep or apear to be sleeping on the jumpseat even if you are going to the moon.

And as for if it was a passenger, on the note it stated "Livingston’s supervisor notified her of a report from a fellow crewmember that stated Livingston had been sleeping on one of the jumpseats in the back galley during the flight back to Long Beach on February 18" so that meant it was a co worker, or better know as a F :censored: G RAT. I really can't stand people like that. Its just wrong, you don't mess with how people take food to their table at home, specially that she has a little one.

But your right jim, the inflight manual is soooo romantic :elvis: :blush: :wub: .

P.S. Heres a tip, if you are really, really, really sleepy that you can't take it no more that a 20 min nap can get you out of the hole, Just act like you farted and have stomach problems and go to the lav and snooze. I know its not the best place, but no one know what you are doing behind closed doors, unless you snore really loud, than that could be a problem.

PEACE

Boricua

 

[stewbear]

The SUPERVISOR....Is nothing but a Pawn of management...ashamed of her/his actions and is cowering for their own protection.
Fatigue is so common among crews these days but they have to cater to 99 dollar fare people who have no idea of the long hours involved and will never care.
A management team that sits on their arse all day not interested, involved or Inteligent enough to realize the real world of flying.
It's all so predictable...the long term employees of other airlines have been telling you all this for the past several years...I know you thought we were stupid and the "company" would take care of you...Sorry...it's not gonna happen.

 

[Skymess]

The question I have is who ratted her out and why?

Like someone said, go wake her up, why throw her under the career bus?

One has to wonder about her prior work record. Having supervised hourly employees I tend to be a "Hard ###" on alot of things. Assuming the article is accurate there were extenuating circumstances and assuming her work record was above average I would have given her a stern lecture and my standard "Go forth and sin no more" speech and put her on the very last level of discipline, (We jokingly called it double top secret probation).

You have to wonder what the "Back Story" is. Sounds to me like she pizzed someone off and most likely more than once. Opportunity knocked and out she went.

I also happen to think sleeping does reach meet the definition of just cause however if it's a one time thing it might be in the companies best interest to keep a good worker.

I agree that her work record should be looked at. There is always a behind the scenes story.

When you have a union you can call professional standards and hope they sort it out. When you don't who do you go to? I would imagine that if the person was bad enough management would have the person on the radar screen.

I highly doubt that they would fire someone based on one persons alleged tale of sleeping on the jumpseat. She was probably someone that nobody wanted to work with.

If she was outside the legal FAA work rules than they couldn't have fired her for refusing to fly. She should have stuck to her guns and called off the flight. If it came to light later on the airline and the rest of the crew would have been fined. They still could be fined if they look up the sequence.

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

...and back the next morning without a break.

... there were no hotel rooms available in Fort Lauderdale

...
First, if you're flying a trip "without a break", why would you even need a hotel room?

Second, don't airlines have "crew hotels" and rooms already lined up for their pilots and F/A's for when they arrive? Aren't they "guaranteed", no matter what the time of arrival?

Also, if a flight leaves LGB at 11:00pm, it's going to arrive in FLL about 7:00am Florida time -- I find it hard to believe that no hotel rooms would be available at that time as most guests tend to leave in the morning?! Even if you had to wait an hour or so to have the room cleaned and made up -- that's still closer than JFK!

The details just don't add up -- or there's more to the story.
Not that I'm a fan of jetBlue's management style by any means. Their so-called "management" often will not take resposibility and accept the fact that sometimes, you have to cancel a flight, make a tech stop, or whatever. "Management" leaves it to the front-line employees -- who aren't getting paid to make those kinds of decisions, who might not have the tools to make those kind of decisions, or who might be so fatigued that they end up making bad decisions. So, when there are any consequences "management" escapes any responsibility by having "empowered" their employees. Pretty slick, eh?

 

[QA4Jet-A]

...
First, if you're flying a trip "without a break", why would you even need a hotel room?

Second, don't airlines have "crew hotels" and rooms already lined up for their pilots and F/A's for when they arrive? Aren't they "guaranteed", no matter what the time of arrival?

Also, if a flight leaves LGB at 11:00pm, it's going to arrive in FLL about 7:00am Florida time -- I find it hard to believe that no hotel rooms would be available at that time as most guests tend to leave in the morning?! Even if you had to wait an hour or so to have the room cleaned and made up -- that's still closer than JFK!

The details just don't add up -- or there's more to the story.
Not that I'm a fan of jetBlue's management style by any means. Their so-called "management" often will not take resposibility and accept the fact that sometimes, you have to cancel a flight, make a tech stop, or whatever. "Management" leaves it to the front-line employees -- who aren't getting paid to make those kinds of decisions, who might not have the tools to make those kind of decisions, or who might be so fatigued that they end up making bad decisions. So, when there are any consequences "management" escapes any responsibility by having "empowered" their employees. Pretty slick, eh?

If I remember correctly without having to read the first postings, the Crew was delayed leaving LGB so there could have been a fatigue factor. Secondly, they were scheduled to return to LGB from FLL so there may not have been a Hotel room available up for them in FLL, regardless of Crew Hotel policies. IMHO, this entire ordeal smells like 3 day old Fish bait.... B)