JetBlue launch Long Beach - Atlanta

[AAmech]

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On 2/19/2003 713 AM AAG2000 wrote:

So, in some ways, AirTran is already one of JetBlue's biggest competitors, yet they seem to be able to coexist peacefully. ---------------
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On the surface it may appear so but in each of their HQ's marketing and yeild managers are working furiously to find ways to win market share from the other!

 

[AAG2000]

Absolutely. There's no question that they're competitors. What I meant was that the NY-Florida pie is big enough for each of them to have a profitable slice, and that the same is true of the NYC-ATL market, should JetBlue decide to enter it.

 

[autofixer]

Everyone is focused on the ATL end of this route. How about the LGB end? Is it possible for Delta to compete with Jetblue? LGB is and at the same time, is not LAX. You can match fares, but can you match convenience?

 

[DLFlyer31]

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On 2/20/2003 1:17:42 PM winedndined wrote:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030220/atth015_1.html


Looks like Delta's responding by flooding the NY market with more RJ nonstops.
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[/blockquote]

I don't think this announcement has much to do with JBLU...except the additional JFK-ATL flights.

All of the LGA flights are primarily aimed at US and to a lesser extent CO/AA. Many of these markets (SAV,CHS,CAE,GSO) are markets where DL and US are the two largest carriers. DL is just keeping the pressure on US.

The additional ATL-JFK flights are there to dissuade JB. Of course, I don't think a bunch of RJ's will stop JB. However, note that JB started LGB-ATL first...a route that DL cannot operate. While JB left out JFK-ATL, a route that DL does operate on.

 

[winedndined]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030220/atth015_1.html


Looks like Delta's responding by flooding the NY market with more RJ nonstops.

 

[Cart Pusher]

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On 2/20/2003 1:29:20 PM DLFlyer31 wrote:

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On 2/20/2003 1:17:42 PM winedndined wrote:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030220/atth015_1.html


Looks like Delta's responding by flooding the NY market with more RJ nonstops.
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[/blockquote]

I don't think this announcement has much to do with JBLU...except the additional JFK-ATL flights.

All of the LGA flights are primarily aimed at US and to a lesser extent CO/AA. Many of these markets (SAV,CHS,CAE,GSO) are markets where DL and US are the two largest carriers. DL is just keeping the pressure on US.

The additional ATL-JFK flights are there to dissuade JB. Of course, I don't think a bunch of RJ's will stop JB. However, note that JB started LGB-ATL first...a route that DL cannot operate. While JB left out JFK-ATL, a route that DL does operate on.
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[/blockquote]

Jet Blue has said that they do not intend on operating ATL-JFK. perhaps, with AirTran in the ATL-NYC market, they don't see as much potential as they did at LGB.

ATL was the perfect market for JB to enter. They don't face WN competition on this route, in fact they don't face ANY low fare competition. There is a large demand for traffic between the two cities and they can offer limited connections to OAK and LAS. I would look for JB to start nonstops to OAK out of ATL next.

DLFlyer31 - you're right, it doesn't look like DL's announcement of RJ expansion to cities that JB doesn't operate to is a reaction to the JB announcement.

 

[MAH4546]

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On 2/20/2003 1:17:42 PM winedndined wrote:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030220/atth015_1.html


Looks like Delta's responding by flooding the NY market with more RJ nonstops.
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[/blockquote]

The additional NYC-ATL frequencies were actually announced in a PR about a month ago. Delta just convienently wanted to remind the public.

 

[N989AT]

I personally believe that Leo F. Mullin is biting at his fingernails at this very moment.

 

[AKAAB]

Here's another angle...

Imagine JetBlue has a list of ten routes they are looking - trying to find one or two to open in the coming year. Chicago looks good, but United is looming with their own hub-based LCC. Delta has already thrown down a guantlet in front of JetBlue with their open intent to try and attack JetBlue.

So where do you go...Atlanta of course. Half of your advertising comes free from the press coverage and buzz that's created. If Delta opens their mouth, the press mentions JetBlue. Anything else spent on advertising just helps build the buzz. JetBlue saves money on the cost of a new destination and maximizes their branding.

Tres shrewd if you as me!

AKAAB

 

[luv2fly]

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On 2/22/2003 10:34:24 AM N989AT wrote:

I personally believe that Leo F. Mullin is biting at his fingernails at this very moment.
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[/blockquote]
Talk is cheap. We'll just have to see where Jet Blew ends up in a year or so.

 

[BonanzaAir]

On 2/22/2003 10:34:24 AM N989AT wrote:

I personally believe that Leo F. Mullin is biting at his fingernails at this very moment.
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[/blockquote]
Talk is cheap. We'll just have to see where Jet Blew ends up in a year or so.
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Leo won't be at Delta in two years.

Bonanza

 

[stewbear]

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On 2/18/2003 12:09:06 PM Speedbird wrote:

Since I'm getting somewhat fatigued (writer's cramp) this morning. This is a paste from another posting (from another site) I made earlier today in response to someone else:

"I think your post repressents what conventional wisdom has believed for many years, based primarily on past actions by majors responding to smaller start-up airlines.

However, since 9/11 the old rules and expectations have changed significantly. For example, jetBlue has been flying JFK-OAK against two majors (AA & UAL) and making money hand over fist. Despite AA's superior product it announced last month that it would be dropping this route because it was unsustainable for them. Meanwhile UAL continues to fly into OAK, but at a big cost to their "loyal" customers who have dropped SFO and driven to the other side of the bay to fly UAL and keep adding to their FF cards. Not only that, but B6 has been able to compete against these two majors and still maintain a yield premium and significantly higher load factors.

Back on the east coast, B6 started up JFK-SJU service last spring against AA, who had a monopoly on this route. Once the service was announced, the experts chimed in that AA would smother B6 with its frequent widebody service and superior service. Besides, AA's FF loyalty program would put to shame the puny FF offering that jetBlue had recently put up. As of this month, jetBlue has announced that SJU service from JFK will grow by 60% to five flights/day.

This route hasn't put AA out of business, but it has made jetBlue a lot of money at their expense. I believe this is the best example of what will happen with Delta on this newly announced route service by B6. There are other examples I could use, but I think it addresses your statements as a counterpoint.

Also, Delta's passenger loyalty out of Atlanta may be high, but as a former Georgian, I know there are plenty of disgruntled former Delta passengers who'd be more than happy to try jetBlue. Remember, jetBlue doesn't need to convert the entire Atlanta population, just about 450/day. Besides, I've read many posts on these boards (many by Delta pilots) that have unequivocally stated that passengers are only interested in price when choosing an airline.

I don't happen to believe it, since I think great customer service is what brings them back again and again. It'll be fun to watch an airline from New York show Delta how to provide flawless customer service, and (god forbid) a little hospitality."

"making money hand over fist....yes they probably are because they have a new workforce working for low wages and not having to pay any substantial vacation pay (they r only 3 years old)no defined pensions etc. In a few years( I give it another 3) when the employess finally realize how hard they are working to make someone else rich you will find alpa,afa iam or amfa being called to bring fairness to the scene. I have seen this crap for 20 years and until people get some brains and guts it will continue. Go ahead and attack me...I have been reading these threads for quite awhile so I know what to expect. I am fed up with the demoralizing threats and B******T that is crammed down our throats year after year, day in and day out
Employees of JB...wish you the best...get some money for yourselves.

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[Jeff G]

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On 2/22/2003 1117 PM stewbear wrote:

In a few years( I give it another 3) when the employess finally realize how hard they are working to make someone else rich you will find alpa,afa iam or amfa being called to bring fairness to the scene.
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[/blockquote]

Make someone else rich? Who might that be? This year, every employee got 15.5% of last year's pay as profit sharing. The year before it was 13.5%. The CEO only makes $300,000. The board of directors doesn't issue dividends, so profits are rolled back into the operation of the company, ensuring strong growth and... (wait for it)... job security. What are you talking about?

I assume you expect the employees, in the name of "fairness", ought to get first crack at any revenue regardless of whether the company makes money. Rubbish. This is a for-profit company, not a co-op. The employees get a share of the profits but can't expect all of them. That kind of "fairness" mostly enriches the unions and puts companies out of business. If it gets to the point when wages fall further and further behind wages at, say, SWA at the same time the company is very profitable, then I would expect that wages will rise. It has already happened, and probably will again. If not, then maybe eventually you'd have a point, but for now I don't think you have a clue.

 

[AKAAB]

Well, let's see...

Over $34,000 in profit sharing over the past two years...not a penny is touchable by JetBlue. Sorry, but I don't have to worry about my pension fund disappearing if my company gets in financial trouble.

I make a great wage for the work I do, typically have 17-18 days off/month, have stock options and company stock purchase plans, great benefits, 401k company match, three weeks vacation/PTO time a year, and don't expect to become bitter and jaded over the next 20 years.

I just don't see the downside. Work rules have been decent and management has responded to our suggestions and concerns. I can't predict that we will never unionize, but I certainly don't see the problems you claim we have.


AKAAB

 

[RJStud]

Welcome to ATL JetBlue. Even though I work for DCI I welcome your arrival. You will do just fine here. All Atlantans know that DAL really sticks it to us with some of the highest fares and worst service in the country. You will do fine here, your product is great, and will attract the younger hipper high-tech type travler.

Our product at DAL is old and stale. Our service sucks.

I can't wait to get out of the Delta He!! and work for a company like JB some day!