Separation of Church and State?

[Ms Tree]

If BaRack-O-Care is going to tell certain religions, how to run their healthcare, then I believe the 10 Commandments, should be posted on all government buildings !
How's that ?

He is not telling any religion what to do. He is telling companies that happen to be owned by religious organizations and who supply insurance for their employees that they must abide by the same standards as everyone else.So one perceived wrong justifies another wrong? Your world is certainly a bizarre one as far as I can tell.

 

[Ifly2]

That is only one way a government can endorse a religion and that is one of the more blatant ways of doing it. Separation of church and state is not mentioned anywhere in the COTUS, it is mentioned in ruling after ruling of the SCOTUS. The basis of which is found in the 1st amendment of the COTUS.

I have no idea how you got to that point. The COTUS only specifies what the government cannot do in terms of religion. The COTUS makes no mention of anything people must do.

I am fully aware that religion has invaded government. Everything from inaugurations, opening of Congress to having a clergy member on staff and religion on our currency. I have spoken out against all of it at one point or another.

Barton is either ignorant of history, or lying. Probably both. But, hey, it sounds good, and scores points with the base. So what's a little historical inaccuracy, or editing, amongst those who wish to remain ignorant of facts, and accept ideology as truth?

The U.S. Constitution, and new form of government was based largely on the ideas of The Enlightenment.

Look it up.

Most of the founders were deists, quakers, freemasons, and the like. Most of the big names among the founders disavowed Christian beliefs, clearly and repeatedly. John Jay being the exception.

~17% of the colonial population were church members. Many of them various "sects" of Christianity that would likely, and deservedly, be considered cults by today's evangelical right. Most of the people Who came to the colonies in search of religous freedom were in fact fleeing social and economic persecution by the Church of England. The "church of the people", and the majority.

The other roughly 83% didn't care enough to join a church.

Younare right that it only became an issue in the last 50-60 years... Actually about 90. That is when the evangelicals started their religious revolution, intending to take over U.S. government and society.

Would that be ok if it actually were the Mohammatens, as you fear, or the Sikh, or the Shinto, or the Papists, or Eastern Orthodox, or the Mormons?

It is no more ok for the Christians.

If I get elected mayor of my small berg... And I open council meetings with readings from the Quran, the Kama Sutra, or The Book of Keith, (LIFE... By Keith Richards... Which contains about as much wisdom and useful life lessons as the Bible, in language that can be understood by anyone, and doesn't claim to be something it most clearly is not--the Word of God-- as the Bible does.)

Will that be ok?

 

[Ms Tree]

I have mentioned most of this on here at various times but the believers on here do not like to hear it.


As for you being mayor and your opening of the legislature, I vote for the "Book of Keith" for the shear entertainment value. Personally, I think Richard's could be a god of some sort. Assuming you believe what is written about him, he has ingested so many drugs that he should be (certainly looks like it) dead so what other explanation could there be for his continued life?

 

[Ifly2]

Keef did drugs right

Those who did drugs wrong, died.

 

[Ms Tree]

Apparently he did them very very right. lol

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Barton is either ignorant of history, or lying. Probably both. But, hey, it sounds good, and scores points with the base. So what's a little historical inaccuracy, or editing, amongst those who wish to remain ignorant of facts, and accept ideology as truth?

The U.S. Constitution, and new form of government was based largely on the ideas of The Enlightenment.

Look it up.

Most of the founders were deists, quakers, freemasons, and the like. Most of the big names among the founders disavowed Christian beliefs, clearly and repeatedly. John Jay being the exception.

~17% of the colonial population were church members. Many of them various "sects" of Christianity that would likely, and deservedly, be considered cults by today's evangelical right. Most of the people Who came to the colonies in search of religous freedom were in fact fleeing social and economic persecution by the Church of England. The "church of the people", and the majority.

The other roughly 83% didn't care enough to join a church.

Younare right that it only became an issue in the last 50-60 years... Actually about 90. That is when the evangelicals started their religious revolution, intending to take over U.S. government and society.

Would that be ok if it actually were the Mohammatens, as you fear, or the Sikh, or the Shinto, or the Papists, or Eastern Orthodox, or the Mormons?

It is no more ok for the Christians.

If I get elected mayor of my small berg... And I open council meetings with readings from the Quran, the Kama Sutra, or The Book of Keith, (LIFE... By Keith Richards... Which contains about as much wisdom and useful life lessons as the Bible, in language that can be understood by anyone, and doesn't claim to be something it most clearly is not--the Word of God-- as the Bible does.)

Will that be ok?

Ifly2.

THANX for that Important (to me) piece of Info about the ' 83-17% ' !

Clearly, The Vast majority of the 'signers' wern't-buying into the HOLY TRINITY BS !

 

[signals]

So you agree that the 10 commandments should not be posted in public areas and that the judge and the schools in AL were wrong?

YES! And I also think that the Jews should be protesting the 10 Commandments, because the slow-to-learn Christians can't comprehend that they don't apply to them!

 

[signals]

Apparently he did them very very right. lol

He also snorted his father's ashes. Yeah lets use that idiot as a poster child for your cause.

 

[Ifly2]

He also snorted his father's ashes. Yeah lets use that idiot as a poster child for your cause.

That was a quip made in response to a stupid question from a reporter...

Anyway, you missed the point, and as usual, not one word of substance from any of the usual suspects... Just more personal attacks...

 

[signals]

Personal attacks to whom?

 

[Ifly2]

He also snorted his father's ashes. Yeah lets use that idiot as a poster child for your cause.

"That idiot", asa aposter child for your cause...

Zero substance, personal attack.

Also untrue... "That idiot" was a central part of one of the most successful global franchises anywhere, ever.

Can you say that about Barton?

Or yourself?

 

[Ifly2]

Back on point, is it really appropriate, constitutionally, to begin public (government...) meetings with prayer, from any faith.

If you believe it is, is a prayer led by a rabbi, imam, guru, papist, wiccan, and or any and every other belief system, rather than a christian minister, equally appropriate?

Would you be happy to have your kids' public...)' school broadcast prayers from "other" beliefs over the PA, and expect your children to join in reciting them? (If you have, or did have kids in public school...)

How about in your workplace, if you have/had a government job. Would that be ok, if, say,, the boss was a muslim, and he felt that all his employees would benefit from having shared a moment of inspiration from the prophet before beginning the workday?

Would any of those examples constitute the government promoting religion?

Would any of those examples make you feel that you were being forced to participate in something you did not believe in, or to endure something forced on you by a government institution?

 

[southwind]

You want separation ? Tell your government to stop telling religious groups how to run their healthcare plans then !
Oh, and this country, whether it was stated "separation of church and state", was based around a Christian foundation!
Of course, maybe you think we would be better off if it had been based on an Islam foundation !

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

You want separation ? Tell your government to stop telling religious groups how to run their healthcare plans then !
Oh, and this country, whether it was stated "separation of church and state", was based around a Christian foundation!

Both of those statements are incorrect.

 

[KCFlyer]

Ifly....for fun, have a public school in the bible belt of the US broadcast the "Hail Mary" over the PA system and see how many evangelicals suddenly want to separate church and state. They wouldn't have a problem with a rabbi, since the Jew's follow the old testament, and so many "Chrisitian" folks cite that version more often than the version where Jesus is introduced. And you don't have to go as radical as an Imam conducting a prayer - just one simple prayer from the great whore of babylon.