Rumor Control at Timco

[olderguyAMT]

It just says one thing, outsourcing is less efficient. If you have to prop up production with your own people what's the point? The fact is that Airplane has been OTS since October of last Year...now that's planning...

Is outsourcing really less efficient and costly, or, is insourcing really less effieient and costly.

Why not use the BK court system to force the co. to prove it.

Since the Co. wants to outsource to the max, as described in the Term Sheet,

will the union demand proof that it saves money, after ALL facets of the issue are examined.

And, will the Co. abide by the law, and bargain in good faith on this issue?

Then, finally, will we get to know the truth of the matter, with all of the supporting facts and documents?

For example:

So, the Co. won't be giving us a slanted and biased multi-colered bar chart and Power-

point presentation on the cost results of the

Timco 757 heavy checks compared to in-house overhaul because the law forbids the fuzzy math.

Will we all be pushing up daisies before knowing the absolute truth?



If it takes months or years for the co. to produce the actual bonafide documents, then so be it.

We can just wait patiently while the Judge delays the layoffs with a 6 month recess. 😉

 

[skippy525]

Well, it looks like 5cl is finally gonna leave gso. What is the tail number of the next hack job that timco gets to put out?

 

[FWAAA]

It just says one thing, outsourcing is less efficient. If you have to prop up production with your own people what's the point? The fact is that Airplane has been OTS since October of last Year...now that's planning...

Uh, no, all it says is that one vendor (Timco) has failed to deliver a trouble-free airplane to its customer on its first try. That's a pretty small sample size. It says nothing about the efficiency of outsourcing heavy airframe overhaul.

 

[chris perry]

Second try 5cl is the second and even later behind schedule....

 

[chris perry]

Mabe we should use this outfit

http://www.123cheapairlines.com/directory/aircraft-maintenance/iran/

 

[FWAAA]

Second try 5cl is the second and even later behind schedule....

Ok. Even if Timco fails on all four 757s, that won't establish that outsourcing is inefficient. That would merely be evidence that Timco is sub-par.

 

[olderguyAMT]

Ok. Even if Timco fails on all four 757s, that won't establish that outsourcing is inefficient. That would merely be evidence that Timco is sub-par.

And if Timco is sub-par, where does Aeroman stand in the ratings? Why isn't there a ratings system in place?

If the Co. has stated that it intends to outsource planes that fly international routes to foreign repair stations, which ones will it choose? HongKong, Singapore, or San Salvador? Surely not Iran-gapore!

How do you get info on Aeroman's record? Can proven facts be presented to the BK court-room to prove a point one way or another? Will the Co. have to prove that Aeroman's record is above avg. in order to make a case in favor of outsourcing?

The gag-order will stand. Will we ever know the truth? Feel like a mushroom yet?

 

[Buck]

Ok. Even if Timco fails on all four 757s, that won't establish that outsourcing is inefficient. That would merely be evidence that Timco is sub-par.

How can you on one hand agree that AA's mechanics are at the bottom of the industry, but state that TIMCO could be sub par? What is the way to go? Cheap industry wages or the attempt to recover the yields through outsourcing to sub par facility.

 

[FWAAA]

How do you get info on Aeroman's record? Can proven facts be presented to the BK court-room to prove a point one way or another? Will the Co. have to prove that Aeroman's record is above avg. in order to make a case in favor of outsourcing?

No, the bankruptcy judge couldn't care less about outsourcing, and AA won't have to prove specific minutae like that. Employees either agree to the AA proposals or AA files its abrogation motion. At that hearing, if AA satisfies the statutory requirements then the contract is abrogated.

How can you on one hand agree that AA's mechanics are at the bottom of the industry, but state that TIMCO could be sub par? What is the way to go? Cheap industry wages or the attempt to recover the yields through outsourcing to sub par facility.

You're mixing and matching. AA's hourly wage rates are near or at the bottom of airline mechanic hourly wage rates. No question about that. Timco is or is not a competent provider of MRO services. That's an open question. Timco's performance may be sub-par.

 

[olderguyAMT]

No, the bankruptcy judge couldn't care less about outsourcing, and AA won't have to prove specific minutae like that. Employees either agree to the AA proposals or AA files its abrogation motion. At that hearing, if AA satisfies the statutory requirements then the contract is abrogated.

I disagree. Why do you think that the full outsourcing issue is minutae? There are only thousands of jobs at stake. Layoffs of 1200 at AFW. Layoffs of 2100 to 2800 at TULE. There
are lots of overhaul jobs effected by outsourcing, and its not a minor issue.


Is this true; That the Co. won't have to back up its term sheet with facts and figures?

What do you think was happening in the BK courtoom this last week?

Many don't understand the process.

Do you still believe that the Co. can fail to negotiate in good faith, and the judge will support that failure with an arbitrary foot into our backside?

You forgot to read the BK updates from the unions.

The flight attendants union is really good at explaining these things, and you will get similar info. from the TWU.

Not so much public info. from the pilots union.


This should make it easy for you.

Read the current and past updates. Its good info.



http://www.apfa.org/content/category/9/17/626/

The same BK rules apply to all unions in this BK courtroom.

APFA
APA
TWU

If you want to debate that, I'll put you on IGNORE.

 

[chris perry]

The fact is there is a whole world of sub-par shops,regulations,workers,drug testing,background checks and FAA oversight... Most mechanic's that have worked for the chop shops of the US know they are sub-par. Most that post on this board have never set foot in a sub-par facility.

 

[FWAAA]

Mr Perry: You're probably right (I have no reason or evidence to disagree), but when every competitor outsources some or all of their heavy airframe overhaul to domestic or off-shore chop-shops like Timco, AAR, ST Aero and Aeroman, AA's gonna seek (and probably get) the same "advantage," even if the benefits of that "advantage" are not readily apparent.

 

[texasreb]

The fact is there is a whole world of sub-par shops,regulations,workers,drug testing,background checks and FAA oversight... Most mechanic's that have worked for the chop shops of the US know they are sub-par. Most that post on this board have never set foot in a sub-par facility.

I would have to agree with you. When we went on a field trip to Tucson for a gear change at an fbo there, I couldn't believe the working conditions. They were working on avionics accesories in the dirtiest conditions that I have ever seen. They also had just totalled out an allegiant air md80 by running it into the hangar. The faa could care less about these kind of places.

 

[chris perry]

Mr Perry: You're probably right (I have no reason or evidence to disagree), but when every competitor outsources some or all of their heavy airframe overhaul to domestic or off-shore chop-shops like Timco, AAR, ST Aero and Aeroman, AA's gonna seek (and probably get) the same "advantage," even if the benefits of that "advantage" are not readily apparent.

Your correct they are and will seek as much as they can get away with.But is it ethical to destroy a profession in America for personal profit?
Other Airlines are bringing more work home why? Boeing has hired 2500 in San Antonio just to fix the outsourcing screw ups on the 787. At a 28 billion dollar development cost estimate that's a hard lesson. That's 900 airplanes just to break even they say... I just hope AA know's what their doing for everyone's sake.In my opinion I think AA is preparing for a Merger,buyout, getting costs as low as possible for a potential Buyer or partner. locking Labor into a 6 year trap as window dressing. There is nothing noble about crapping on your people or your country... Someday this will backfire.

 

[olderguyAMT]

Rumor: What about the rumor of a new beauty pageant in Dallas, only open to non-union types that work there.

the winner will get the title of......Miss Management.

Something tells me there could be a hundred MRO just like Timco, and nothing would ever be said publicly. But the mula from

legacy carriers would flow like the water over Niagra Falls. Timco has nothing to worry about IMO. Look at all the cash being

thrown at consultancy firms!

Is there a whistleblower item in the new FAA Modernization Act of 2012??

Did you read the part about unmanned planes?