RIF Notices

[dfw gen]

It is correct that afw voted with the line yes. I think it was mostly voting against the bubba club, or the intl not neccessarily to vote with the line

 

[AA89]

Who knows why every individual voted the way they did over the years? Captain reality made the statement that AFW voted in favor of this contract and like this Line vs Overhaul stuff its a bunch of BS.

A question for you Gen: if you were present at the meeting when M.L. Made statements about protecting AFW from bumping back then, did you speak up since you now seem to feel it was wrong to protect AFW but ok now to protect DFW. Something tells me you thought it was ok since you were the one being protected, just like you are now.

If in fact the leadership at AFW did wrong you should jave spoken up. You and Captain Reality gloating about it is no better that what ML did. Divide and conquer is working great for AA and its no surprise.

 

[NYer]

No its more about that we should someday really practice being like a Union and apply seniority, like most other Union carriers do. Here we bend over backwards to save the company money, make up all sorts of excuses for the company such as "inconviencing fewer people" even if it means violating seniority and sending a senior man to a place he does not want to be while a junior man occupies a place where he wants to be.

Like I said if they had to move 7, and pay the $12k to each , to eliminate 1 head its more cost effective to keep the head.

And yes I would rather put disincentives in place to thwart RIFS than give concessions and hope that we price ourselves so cheaply its not worth outsourcing. Once again you come out on the side of anything that saves the company money while pretending to be about supporting the members.

The fact is we should change the rules to what best serves the entire membership, but it cant be done when there is a RIF going on. It has to be done when there is no RIF going on. It would be unreasonable to expect a Local to agree to change the rules in the middle of this where more of the people he represents would get hurt. Naturally each Local will want what best serves their members interests. Lets take AFW and DFW. Sure now some in AFW would like to have a one station agreement or be able to bump the Junior guy in DFW, Guys with some seniority may have gone to AFW to get the weekend off because they could not hold that at DFW but for the last twenty years nobody cared and the Juniority system has been in place as long as I've been here. When they chose to go they knew, or should have known, the rules, screwed up or not. I've heard some blast DFW for not being willing to change the rules now, but years back when they used to Red Circle the shops in the base and Line guys were Riffed to the street that was OK. So this is what it is. Screwed up, but the time to fix it has to come when nobody is facing a RIF so more objectivity can be used in the decision making process and not each guy looking out for what their members are facing at the moment.

Your "plan" hurts the Members, you want 7 guys to be RIF instead of 2. You can play with the words and misdirect the focus with the babble about the airline not eliminating jobs but they will cut regardless of the formula. It is unfortunate that you put screwing the airline in front of the best interests of your Members. Carry on.

 

[dfw gen]

Let me clarify that statement. The intl would never allow dfw and afw to become one local since it could potentially be larger then tulsa. Now back to the motion I beleive Charlie Clark ot Joe "meth" hasen were president when it came up. Matt lorenzi CLEARLY explained in that special "I'm smarter then anyone and know better then everyone" Matt way that if we did that then all that seniority in dfw can bump to afw. Then if you were in afw you would go to MIA, lga, ord etc. Local 567 did everything they could to eliminate seniority in training, quals and everything unless of course they were forced to follow seniority

 

[Captain Reality]

I never said AFW voted for anything. I just thought it was ironic the "FAT" AFW "grasshoppers" are screaming for the DFW "ants" to let them in.

 

[swamt]

I never said AFW voted for anything. I just thought it was ironic the "FAT" AFW "grasshoppers" are screaming for the DFW "ants" to let them in.

I would be willing to bet that this is Realityck. He was getting hammered so bad he needed to come in under different titles. If this is not him I will apologize now, but it looks extremely fishy at 20 postings and with reality in your name. And if you have been here reading prior to posting (which most all do) then you would have known better than to pick the title you picked. LOL

 

[AA89]

I never said AFW voted for anything. I just thought it was ironic the "FAT" AFW "grasshoppers" are screaming for the DFW "ants" to let them in.

Yeah you did say AFW and Tulsa voted for this contract. Admit it Grasshopper.....

 

[Bob Owens]

Your "plan" hurts the Members, you want 7 guys to be RIF instead of 2. You can play with the words and misdirect the focus with the babble about the airline not eliminating jobs but they will cut regardless of the formula. It is unfortunate that you put screwing the airline in front of the best interests of your Members. Carry on.

I don't want anybody to be RIF'd, but if they are going to RIF then Seniority should prevail. Look at what our union peers from other carriers have said, the same things I'm saying. Seniority should prevail no matter how painful it is for the company. If they had to move 7 guys, and pay $12000 in moving expenses to each of them then it may be more cost effective to not have a RIF at all. We had the Juniority list but we also had the $12500 in addition to the $12000 in moving expenses, the $12500 was essentially a payoff for violating seniority in a RIF, it was cheaper to pay one guy the extra $12500 than to pay the $12000 to all the guys in between. Our peers kept Seniority prevails, we had the $12500, now we have neither.

Its unfortunate that you pretend to be a NYer and pretend to be Union when really all you are about is anything that puts more money in the company's pockets.

 

[Bob Owens]

Thanks Bob. Any type of award list that members can see?

Its a big file, I edited it to show who was coming to 562 on the first round for easier reading and sent it to all our chairmen to show our members. I'm sure if you asked to see it your Local would show it to you. Heard the second round results were out, My chairmen are telling me the results as they are getting it from management, I still haven't seen them yet.

 

[Boomer]

I don't want anybody to be RIF'd, but if they are going to RIF then Seniority should prevail. Look at what our union peers from other carriers have said, the same things I'm saying. Seniority should prevail no matter how painful it is for the company. If they had to move 7 guys, and pay $12000 in moving expenses to each of them then it may be more cost effective to not have a RIF at all. We had the Juniority list but we also had the $12500 in addition to the $12000 in moving expenses, the $12500 was essentially a payoff for violating seniority in a RIF, it was cheaper to pay one guy the extra $12500 than to pay the $12000 to all the guys in between. Our peers kept Seniority prevails, we had the $12500, now we have neither.

Its unfortunate that you pretend to be a NYer and pretend to be Union when really all you are about is anything that puts more money in the company's pockets.

I say that seniority should prevail anytime a Union Member wishes to use it: just like it does at a station shift bid.

It doesn't matter that one guy needs to work a second job, or pick up his kids, or spend time with the wife.

During a station bid: seniority rules and the number of Union Members disrupted from their individual lives and schedules is never given a second glance.

If it can work within individual stations: why shouldn't it work system wide?

I think we all know the reason: with the AA/TWU control over how people move, AA/TWU can control both the flow of information and the message.

 

[Realityck]

I would be willing to bet that this is Realityck. He was getting hammered so bad he needed to come in under different titles. If this is not him I will apologize now, but it looks extremely fishy at 20 postings and with reality in your name. And if you have been here reading prior to posting (which most all do) then you would have known better than to pick the title you picked. LOL

You're wrong as usual, apology accepted.

 

[TWU informer]

I question the directive, "do not post" ..... Why the hell not???? Hiding what?????

 

[CactUSmx]

Seniority Rules. If a guy served the company for 30 years and they close his station and he wants to bump to let's say Miami but he can't because the junior guy in the system lets say is in LAX with 6 months in,why should he suffer in California in a place he doesn't want to be and a junior guy in Miami with a year in gets to stay in Miami so the senior guy doesnt want LAX and goes to the street. In times of layoffs and station closures a senior mechanic should be able to bid where his seniority holds. This is why we pay union dues. Job Protection. I can understand JetBlue or Delta ruling by juniority but not a union shop. This is a scam by AA to get rid of senior people. This has nothing to do with collateral damage.

 

[odie01]

Seniority Rules. If a guy served the company for 30 years and they close his station and he wants to bump to let's say Miami but he can't because the junior guy in the system lets say is in LAX with 6 months in,why should he suffer in California in a place he doesn't want to be and a junior guy in Miami with a year in gets to stay in Miami so the senior guy doesnt want LAX and goes to the street. In times of layoffs and station closures a senior mechanic should be able to bid where his seniority holds. This is why we pay union dues. Job Protection. I can understand JetBlue or Delta ruling by juniority but not a union shop. This is a scam by AA to get rid of senior people. This has nothing to do with collateral damage.

Exactly,
We have mechanics from AFW with 95 seniority going to MIA, SAT, AUS, ORD,ect., when their are mechanics at DWH with 2011 seniority. Thanks Bob V and Don V. twu sux

 

[swamt]

Exactly,
We have mechanics from AFW with 95 seniority going to MIA, SAT, AUS, ORD,ect., when their are mechanics at DWH with 2011 seniority. Thanks Bob V and Don V. twu sux

You guys have some f/u seniority rules. It's like you are taking senoirity from your members. If a man gets rifed, he should be allowed to bump wherever he wants with senoirity prevailing. This crap you guys speek of, of not displacing a lower senoirity guy from another station because he should not be forced to a city he does not want, too freakin bad!! This is what senoirity is all about. The company likes it the way you guys have it so there is not such a burden on the company when the trickling starts. But that's how it should be, a burden on the company so not so easily turned on by the company.