RETIREMENT

[texasreb]

I don't hate you Informer, but its hard not to hate or lash out at a company that makes piss poor decisions and we have to pay for them. How many people have to lose their jobs and benefits, when we have a bunch of idiots running this company. Carty, Arpey and now Horton the 3 headed snake that is going to inflict a lot of pain. Sorry but I just have a hard time defending this Company.

Just remember that Horton is presumed to be great because of his stint at at&t. But they are not doing very well at the moment, actually losing money.

 

[Buck]

For those of you who believe that the union is the knight in shining armor and that this about the difference in 2012 and 2003, take a minute and throw the multiple pay scale system into your calculation. The company as a business came to the union in 1983 and proposed the B-scale. You guys feel so sorry for yourselves because now you are going to get your turn at the same game that has been going on for more than 30 years. It was not the company that agreed to their own proposal in negotiations, it was the union and its members of the time. It was an "I got mine brother" then and it is that same mentality that is prevalent today. Very few of you really care about your union brothers across the country, let alone across your break room.

 

[odie01]

Now we live in a society where the person telling what everyone wants to hear is the hero, and the guys telling the truth are accused of having some disability and in need of help. Sad is it not?

Don't worry Informer, mouse balls, does not make a person disabled.
On the other hand, mixing anti depressants, alcohol, and Dukes of Hazzard re-runs will F@#k a man up! That's what Springer say's anyway......good luck

 

[Frank Szabo]

I doubt the local E.A.P has any available services for someone who is simply conerned that their co-workers are being lead off a cillf of destruction, while being told only what they want to hear. Concerned that someone is using the members emotions and hot button issues to spool them up into their own destruction. They used to call those cults and wrong.

We used to live in a society where those liars and manipulators were called out by everyone. Now we live in a society where the person telling what everyone wants to hear is the hero, and the guys telling the truth are accused of having some disability and in need of help. Sad is it not?

The bottom line is the rank and file, if hosed bad enough, will beat a path to the door, hence the proliferation of advisors to figure out that "delicate" balance - it's quite evident those running the show at Centrepork haven't a clue and must depend on outside advice - this is referred to as "market".

I suggested, years ago, that the A&Ps be let go and replaced with Tool & Diemakers throughout as we were being called out to do rather simple jobs like drilling and reaming holes. Since all we held were drivers' licenses, it made sense to eliminate the license requirement - that didn't go over very well. We still run reamers and drills for AO - case in point, the Boeing reamer kit for the 737 tail bushings, designed for mechanics to use but not at AA. That alone would have reduced AA's outlays re: compensation, however.

In short, I don't believe it'll be as bad as what you're representing but that's not to say it'll be pleasant. A frozen pension with the company still administering it will allow many to retire if they wish (without the severe reductions re: a PBGC takeover) but along with that I'd expect an elimination of the early-retirement medical coverage, which is wrongly referred to simply as retiree medical - it's bridge insurance, ten years max. We have to remember the more they take away the less there is to hold over our heads at a later date exactly as has been done this time, the fear being spread about how much we'd supposedly lose.

Remember also this is a "me too" type of filing. The term "strategic" was used - the intent is to get on equal footing with AA's peer group. Considering we are nearly the lowest in compensation of that group, pay may not be as great an issue as some believe

 

[AANOTOK]

Remember also this is a "me too" type of filing. The term "strategic" was used - the intent is to get on equal footing with AA's peer group. Considering we are nearly the lowest in compensation of that group, pay may not be as great an issue as some believe

In my opinion, with the exception of the Pilot's and F/A's (who will be required to work much more) the most damage can and will come from outsourcing. Us "no-skilled" Fleet service clerks will be hardest hit, and you "skilled" mechanics etc...will be hit pretty damn hard as well.

It's a shame, 29 years with AA and look at me now. And I'm only 51 :angry:

 

[FWAAA]

Just remember that Horton is presumed to be great because of his stint at at&t. But they are not doing very well at the moment, actually losing money.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Horton left AT&T almost six years ago after the merger with SBC, so it doesn't make much sense to blame Horton for AT&T's problems, since he's been gone from there for six years. He became redundant after the merger with SBC.

Some people might think like this: Horton leaves AT&T. Six years later, AT&T loses money. AT&T management since early 2006 has failed to deliver. AT&T should have kept Horton.

I don't carry water for the guy, but other than the 3.5 years he spent at AT&T, his entire career has been at AMR. Whether he's great or not? I don't know.

But if your position is that Horton is somehow a failure because a company he left six years ago isn't "doing very well at the moment," I'd disagree. I'd blame the people in charge at AT&T for the past six years before I'd assign blame to Horton.

 

[Vortilon]

What I see coming is when the retiree medical plan is cxld, and we get our share returned to us - the TWU steps in, and offers some sort of alternative plan that; oddly enough, costs about as much as our refund amount is.

 

[Buck]

What I see coming is when the retiree medical plan is cxld, and we get our share returned to us - the TWU steps in, and offers some sort of alternative plan that; oddly enough, costs about as much as our refund amount is.

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that the members interests are not the issue, but the revenue stream to the TWU International is?

 

[Frank Szabo]

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that the members interests are not the issue, but the revenue stream to the TWU International is?

"Heavens to Merkatroid"! (?sp)

 

[FWAAA]

"Heavens to Merkatroid"! (?sp)

 

[Frank Szabo]

I couldn't remember - Snagglepuss or Top Cat.

Thanx!

 

[767 mechanic]

Why should I lash out at the company? They were offering me a substantial raise in pay, the ability to keep my pension, and my prefunding retirement medical.

Is it leaders like yourself that screwed that up. Not AA

You and the other idiots that cannot see that are the one's that should be lashed out at.

Go ahead and keep living your fantasy world of historical organized labor power, while thousands lose their jobs and pensions, you will surely get your GEO pay you seek. Who gives a rats ass if that comes at the expense of others pain and suffering. At least you will have yours....brother

Scared no, Angry yes.

OK you got me I am one of the idiots that voted no. I voted no because it was a concessionary contract period. I am under 50 and you wanted to stick it to us. Can you say I got mine brother. Anybody want to own up to be one of the idiots. Oh yes didn't you say something recently about name calling what a hippocrite

 

[Vortilon]

Wait a minute, are you suggesting that the members interests are not the issue, but the revenue stream to the TWU International is?

I just hope Jim Little doesn't read this board, cause if he didn't think of this before then.........

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I just hope Jim Little doesn't read this board, cause if he didn't think of this before then.........

Well management has sure got some ideas by reading this board.

 

[strikeforce]

They offered you a better deal than you are going to get now.
You and others said NO.

Other Airlines went through BK since 2003.
Other Airlines already elimnated their defined pensions.

AA offered you the chance at keeping your pension.

You and others out of hate for management, and so focused on their bonus awards, still to this day refuse to accept that the landscape and cost structures of the competition changed while you worked under those concession, Time did not stand still while you were working under those concessions. The other carriers went to court and removed defined pensions and lowered cost. Sure some on them make more per hour than you do. But because you refused to see the value in keeping your defined pensions and your hate for management, you are now going to lose yours too. Why is this so damn hard for you all to grasp? It is really simple basic math and not hard, but you must add in all wages and benefits to get to your cost structure, you cannot keep only comparing wage per hour, while you have a defined pension others no longer get. And AA was offering you a decent chance at keeping your pension by allowing other concessions to keep it. YOU AND OTHERS SAID NO. And now you still want to blame management for your own inability to understand basic math and cost structure accounting principles. I am sorry I am not sympathetic or tolerable towards unreasonable cost demands in an unregluated competetive industry. It just simply doesn't work that way any longer. Some still want to live in the historical past days of hard core union tactics when the laws, the public, and the odds are in total against you succeeding.

I voted NO on the basis of the language of the T/A. I can't help it if my union keeps bringing me POS T/A's to vote on. They should do their damn job at the table, and if the TWU did the job they're getting paid to do WE wouldn't be complaining on an airline forum. I can only vote on what's placed in front of me. You voted in favor of the T/A because those terms were favorable to you, and although I was getting more money in my pocket now.....the language was going to affect me later on in life when I would need retiree medical or my sick time. If I was planning on retiring at 60, the T/A basically eliminated any chance of retiring at 60 because I would of had to save ALL my sick time that I've accumulated over 20 years to pay for retiree medical. And, since I'm not getting any younger.....ALL I need is a grabber and all that sick time saved up for retiree medical would disapear. Then what????? So, I shot it down. You can go ahead and blame Bob, but Bob had absolutely no influence in my decision.

Blame the people that have sat at the table throughout the years for our demise. I hate them too for placing hard working people in harm's way and financial ruin. I blame Labor just as much as this company for it's failures. The membership has responsibility to keep their PAID representatives accountable and WE also have failed in our duty to make sure they properly represent US. Shame on US!!!!!!