RETIREMENT

[TWU informer]

I voted NO - cause I lost retiree medical among other things. If you don't like it.. well tough! You're just another number, just like everybody else!

I understand, but why should I lash out at the company then?

Compared to what you voted NO and against you are now going to get much worse.

Bob made the point that I should be lashing out at the company, I say they were offering me and you a better deal than what you are going to get now.

And that is by your choice not theirs. So why should I be lashing out as AA?

The only claim being made to cover up that ignorance, is an unsubstatiated claim that AA was going to file regardless. Maybe so, Maybe not, no proof. The only proof that will become clear tomorrow is that compared to what you voted against, you are going to get that and even worse now.

I refuse to lash out at the company when I have watched who lead us down this path. The guy that believes and still seems to believe that we can fight and win is the guy that needs lashing, because he is living a dream instead of reality.

Are we all so entrenched in hatred for management that we are unable to see these facts right in front of our own eyes?

D-E-N-I-A-L

 

[DNTULSA]

Informer:

The Union membership voted to turn the proposed contract down. All the whining in the world will not change it.

I suspect that tomorrow you will have a lot more to whine about.

 

[eolesen]

The only thing anyone can whine about after tomorrow is why they didn't come to terms before November 28th.

You guys had your chance to control your future. Testosterone seems to have won over common sense. Your loss.

I don't agree with Dave all the time, but on this one I think he's more right than you guys want to admit.

Those who campaigned for the "NO" vote and those who voted "NO" out of anger are the ones responsible for the fact you're now facing a term sheet.

Same thing with the negotiators at APA & APFA who were holding out for more than what they knew the company could afford.

 

[enough already]

The only thing anyone can whine about after tomorrow is why they didn't come to terms before November 28th.

You guys had your chance to control your future. Testosterone seems to have won over common sense. Your loss.

I don't agree with Dave all the time, but on this one I think he's more right than you guys want to admit.

Those who campaigned for the "NO" vote and those who voted "NO" out of anger are the ones responsible for the fact you're now facing a term sheet.

Same thing with the negotiators at APA & APFA who were holding out for more than what they knew the company could afford.

Ahh a voice of reason!

 

[strikeforce]

I understand, but why should I lash out at the company then?

Compared to what you voted NO and against you are now going to get much worse.

Bob made the point that I should be lashing out at the company, I say they were offering me and you a better deal than what you are going to get now.

And that is by your choice not theirs. So why should I be lashing out as AA?

The only claim being made to cover up that ignorance, is an unsubstatiated claim that AA was going to file regardless. Maybe so, Maybe not, no proof. The only proof that will become clear tomorrow is that compared to what you voted against, you are going to get that and even worse now.

I refuse to lash out at the company when I have watched who lead us down this path. The guy that believes and still seems to believe that we can fight and win is the guy that needs lashing, because he is living a dream instead of reality.

Are we all so entrenched in hatred for management that we are unable to see these facts right in front of our own eyes?

D-E-N-I-A-L

You should lash out at the company because in 2003 the MAJORITY voted to help them from filing BK. Instead, they squandered the 1.6B over 9 years. And, now they WILL get more whether YOU like it or not. The union hasn't raped you as bad as management....they only stole 12K over 20 years, but AA stole 200K and still counting. When it's all said and done, AA will make Bonnie & Clyde look like ametuers when they're done stealing. You go right ahead and believe AA's your friend because come tomorrow when you hear that TULSA is shutting down & AA red circles the Line stations, I'm almost positive YOU will change your tune.

 

[enough already]

You go right ahead and believe AA's your friend because come tomorrow when you hear that TULSA is shutting down & AA red circles the Line stations, I'm almost positive YOU will change your tune.

Wow! Now there's a strong union man. To hell with seniority!

 

[TWU informer]

You should lash out at the company because in 2003 the MAJORITY voted to help them from filing BK. Instead, they squandered the 1.6B over 9 years. And, now they WILL get more whether YOU like it or not. The union hasn't raped you as bad as management....they only stole 12K over 20 years, but AA stole 200K and still counting. When it's all said and done, AA will make Bonnie & Clyde look like ametuers when they're done stealing. You go right ahead and believe AA's your friend because come tomorrow when you hear that TULSA is shutting down & AA red circles the Line stations, I'm almost positive YOU will change your tune.

They offered you a better deal than you are going to get now.
You and others said NO.

Other Airlines went through BK since 2003.
Other Airlines already elimnated their defined pensions.

AA offered you the chance at keeping your pension.

You and others out of hate for management, and so focused on their bonus awards, still to this day refuse to accept that the landscape and cost structures of the competition changed while you worked under those concession, Time did not stand still while you were working under those concessions. The other carriers went to court and removed defined pensions and lowered cost. Sure some on them make more per hour than you do. But because you refused to see the value in keeping your defined pensions and your hate for management, you are now going to lose yours too. Why is this so damn hard for you all to grasp? It is really simple basic math and not hard, but you must add in all wages and benefits to get to your cost structure, you cannot keep only comparing wage per hour, while you have a defined pension others no longer get. And AA was offering you a decent chance at keeping your pension by allowing other concessions to keep it. YOU AND OTHERS SAID NO. And now you still want to blame management for your own inability to understand basic math and cost structure accounting principles. I am sorry I am not sympathetic or tolerable towards unreasonable cost demands in an unregluated competetive industry. It just simply doesn't work that way any longer. Some still want to live in the historical past days of hard core union tactics when the laws, the public, and the odds are in total against you succeeding.

 

[exs]

They offered you a better deal than you are going to get now.
You and others said NO.

Other Airlines went through BK since 2003.
Other Airlines already elimnated their defined pensions.

AA offered you the chance at keeping your pension.

You and others out of hate for management, and so focused on their bonus awards, still to this day refuse to accept that the landscape and cost structures of the competition changed while you worked under those concession, Time did not stand still while you were working under those concessions. The other carriers went to court and removed defined pensions and lowered cost. Sure some on them make more per hour than you do. But because you refused to see the value in keeping your defined pensions and your hate for management, you are now going to lose yours too. Why is this so damn hard for you all to grasp? It is really simple basic math and not hard, but you must add in all wages and benefits to get to your cost structure, you cannot keep only comparing wage per hour, while you have a defined pension others no longer get. And AA was offering you a decent chance at keeping your pension by allowing other concessions to keep it. YOU AND OTHERS SAID NO. And now you still want to blame management for your own inability to understand basic math and cost structure accounting principles. I am sorry I am not sympathetic or tolerable towards unreasonable cost demands in an unregluated competetive industry. It just simply doesn't work that way any longer. Some still want to live in the historical past days of hard core union tactics when the laws, the public, and the odds are in total against you succeeding.

Maybe the company should put you on the board, maybe you can tell Horton how to fix our problems. You seem to know it all!

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe the company should put you on the board, maybe you can tell Horton how to fix our problems. You seem to know it all!

I am pretty sure Horton is going to tell you and your union how the problems will be fixed tomorrow.
You can accept that or scorch the earth in anger and lose everything along with your pension you have now squandered.

It is funny that someone that tells you the truth is always the bad guy. And meanwhile, the guy telling you what you want to hear while leading you off the cliff is the hero. I really don't care if call me names, make smart ass claims like the one above. Even though I am not an elected leader, your elected leaders are refusing to spell out the truth to you because they want your vote next election, so someone has to speak up. I'm your huckleberry. Hate me if you must, but please hear the truth and reason that truth in your head as you hate me. In the end the truth and the facts are all that matter.

There is one other truth you should consider along with the defined pension issue. And that it that AA was not outsouring near the work other carriers were since they went BK C11. Along with your pension being squandered, those jobs are now gone too. This fact also is including in the basic cost structure math that you refuse to evaluate honestly.

 

[Vortilon]

I understand, but why should I lash out at the company then?

Compared to what you voted NO and against you are now going to get much worse.

Bob made the point that I should be lashing out at the company, I say they were offering me and you a better deal than what you are going to get now.

And that is by your choice not theirs. So why should I be lashing out as AA?

The only claim being made to cover up that ignorance, is an unsubstatiated claim that AA was going to file regardless. Maybe so, Maybe not, no proof. The only proof that will become clear tomorrow is that compared to what you voted against, you are going to get that and even worse now.

I refuse to lash out at the company when I have watched who lead us down this path. The guy that believes and still seems to believe that we can fight and win is the guy that needs lashing, because he is living a dream instead of reality.

Are we all so entrenched in hatred for management that we are unable to see these facts right in front of our own eyes?

D-E-N-I-A-L


Look, most guys who voted No, just wanted a reasonable raise in pay, get some holidays back, fix the sick time pay and accrual, and get some more vacation restored. As it turned out, management had to add the poison pills to the offer - those were the deal breakers. The other stuff was pretty much there. At the time, nobody thought we would be in BK this fast, not even Gerard. I don't hate management, it's their job to screw the employees as much as possible - job well done! Now if they could run the company as well as they screw the employees, we would be talking about profit sharing checks instead of pay cuts and layoffs.

 

[dfw gen]

Informer you really need to contact your local eap rep. Your out of control

 

[exs]

I am pretty sure Horton is going to tell you and your union how the problems will be fixed tomorrow.
You can accept that or scorch the earth in anger and lose everything along with your pension you have now squandered.

It is funny that someone that tells you the truth is always the bad guy. And meanwhile, the guy telling you what you want to hear while leading you off the cliff is the hero. I really don't care if call me names, make smart ass claims like the one above. Even though I am not an elected leader, your elected leaders are refusing to spell out the truth to you because they want your vote next election, so someone has to speak up. I'm your huckleberry. Hate me if you must, but please hear the truth and reason that truth in your head as you hate me. In the end the truth and the facts are all that matter.

There is one other truth you should consider along with the defined pension issue. And that it that AA was not outsouring near the work other carriers were since they went BK C11. Along with your pension being squandered, those jobs are now gone too. This fact also is including in the basic cost structure math that you refuse to evaluate honestly.

I don't hate you Informer, but its hard not to hate or lash out at a company that makes piss poor decisions and we have to pay for them. How many people have to lose their jobs and benefits, when we have a bunch of idiots running this company. Carty, Arpey and now Horton the 3 headed snake that is going to inflict a lot of pain. Sorry but I just have a hard time defending this Company.

 

[dfw gen]

When you start to beleive that you are the only reasonable person in the room your delusional. Step away from the key board for your own peace of mind

 

[DNTULSA]

Informer:

Do you honestly think that if we had accepted the companies proposed contract that they wouldn't have declared bankrupcy? And after declaring bankrupcy you don't think they would come back for even more wage and benefit concessions?

Perhaps they would ask for much more than they will ask for tomorrow, seeing as how gullible the TWU was to accept their proposed contract.

Neither you or Eric knows what would have happened. You are only advancing your opinions.

DNTULSA

I am pretty sure Horton is going to tell you and your union how the problems will be fixed tomorrow.
You can accept that or scorch the earth in anger and lose everything along with your pension you have now squandered.

It is funny that someone that tells you the truth is always the bad guy. And meanwhile, the guy telling you what you want to hear while leading you off the cliff is the hero. I really don't care if call me names, make smart ass claims like the one above. Even though I am not an elected leader, your elected leaders are refusing to spell out the truth to you because they want your vote next election, so someone has to speak up. I'm your huckleberry. Hate me if you must, but please hear the truth and reason that truth in your head as you hate me. In the end the truth and the facts are all that matter.

There is one other truth you should consider along with the defined pension issue. And that it that AA was not outsouring near the work other carriers were since they went BK C11. Along with your pension being squandered, those jobs are now gone too. This fact also is including in the basic cost structure math that you refuse to evaluate honestly.

 

[TWU informer]

Informer you really need to contact your local eap rep. Your out of control

I doubt the local E.A.P has any available services for someone who is simply conerned that their co-workers are being lead off a cillf of destruction, while being told only what they want to hear. Concerned that someone is using the members emotions and hot button issues to spool them up into their own destruction. They used to call those cults and wrong.

We used to live in a society where those liars and manipulators were called out by everyone. Now we live in a society where the person telling what everyone wants to hear is the hero, and the guys telling the truth are accused of having some disability and in need of help. Sad is it not?