Retiree Equity Lawsuit Info

[NYer]

So by NOT selling is the only way to get the shares (value) that you are entitled to. If you have already sold, you are s*** out of luck unless the stock takes a nose dive, which is unlikely at this time.
 
Oh well, you can still do some recouping with the matching prefunding refund... B)

 
Correct. This was not explained nearly as well as it should have. That was a huge disservice.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

 
Bingo!
What I want to now is what happens if the stock price rises to the point that the initial two distributions total value exceeds the 100% value of the equity award?

Then we will owe the twu money paid for by an increase in dues
But then again no one knows the top secret formula to determine just how much we are supposed to get
Either way sign an AMFA card and get the twu off the property

 

[MetalMover]

If not, I'm hoping all current and former AAer's will quickly engage in a class action. :angry2:

And they still have not given each of a us a detailed description of how they arrived at our value.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Then we will owe the twu money paid for by an increase in dues
But then again no one knows the top secret formula to determine just how much we are supposed to get
Either way sign an AMFA card and get the twu off the property

Without any doubt, the formula was arrived at AFTER the twu removed THEIR supposed "due" from the equation. 

 

[Thomas Paine]

But with stock on the fast rise those shares are disappearing fast.

Another reason to support USAIR mechanics and set up picket lines. If we start setting up pickets and showing the world that all is not rosy at AA with labor (the truth) and that AA may be looking at a strike with the IAM that will be supported by the 25000 TWU members at AA that would drive the price down on the shares and increase the number of shares we get. Then if they get a deal and AA starts making billions the price goes up again. Right now we lose shares the higher the price goes so we are better off to see it tank. So it would be a Win-Win to start picketing in support of those guys , especially in stations where they have no presence.
 
We lose nothing by supporting the IAM guys, the only possible downside for the TWU, and that would be the institution not the members, is that it may make the IAM look more appealing should the whole Alliance thing fall apart. The upside would be that the members would see the TWU doing whats best for the members for a change.
 
Remember this, there is no possible way that supporting the IAM prior to the 120th day can hurt us as members of the TWU.
-Their wage increases would not affect our profit sharing because we dont get profit sharing.
-Their wage increase would shift the wage adjustment premiums higher.
-Their wage increase would move the baseline for a JCBA forward.
-If they got a good deal during this time would most likely not affect the stock, depending on how the media spins it, the fact that they got "labor peace" would offset concerns over higher labor costs. Ideal for us would be to have massive pickets, maybe avoid OT at peak demand times , get media attention, drive the price down, we get more shares then after the 120th day they settle, and the stock recovers.  The worst situation for us is to have the IAM keep quiet like they have been for the last two years and start making noise after the 120th day, when we already got our shares and got less of them due to the inflated value that were at when we recieved them.
 
So IAM, whats it going to be?  Still going to protest in near silence and keep blaming the bankruptcy that took place nine years ago, or start making a real effort, get with the TWU and start making some noise around the system? Right now you stand a better chance of getting TWU membership support, the Alliance would have more credibility if it can be shown that these two organizations can in fact work together and produce positive results for the members and not as the majority feel be willing to sacrifice the members for what is good for those running the two organizations. My concern, is that if the two of you dont get together now is that the mechanics at least will see the Alliance vote as their only opportunity to get out of the worst deal in the industry and go "No-Union". Then they just have to live with this deal for a year, get a new union and start from scratch, and save $700/year in Union dues. The overwhelming majority of line mechanics have worked Non-Union at some point in their careers and while they may prefer to have a union the risk of going a year without bone to wipe the slate clean is not that terrifying to them. There is a good chance that AA could take the approach of Delta and sweeten the pot to keep the Unions out. Put yourself in the members shoes, here is your opportunity to show what these Unions can do together, or not. The opportunity is here, now, but at best it will only stay open till that 120th day. Any action after that date will be looked at negatively by the members who see themselves as losing money if the shares go down in value. True, long term beneifits should not be ignored, but short term costs will be ignored.
 
The ball is in your court, the time is now to show whether or not the two organizations will or can work together for what is best for the members, or not. We dont want excuses, either the two can work together or not. No membership vote is needed for the TWU to set up pickets in support of the IAM workers. We need to know now. If we vote in the Alliance whats to stop the unions from cutting under the table deals that will keep more vwork in the stations they have members at the expense of the stations where the other has members?

 

[Thomas Paine]

short term costs will NOT be ignored.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
Correct. This was not explained nearly as well as it should have. That was a huge disservice.

By the company or the Union?
 
It seems to me that this is exactly why you were not given all your shares up front.
The Power Point presentation and the Q&A to follow stated that they feared a lot of employees would sell at once causing the stock to tank. When in reality, many probably did sell quickly as predicted, but that is exactly what AA wanted. The consensus was the stock would probably take off and therefore if AA only issued 40-50%, they would never have to deliver the second round in 120 days...

 

[DFWFSC]

I heard today that more lawsuits were filed a few days ago, this time in North Texas.

 

[AANOTOK]

I guess when we run out of shares for the TWU to take, they will use our prefunding match! (and I'm being serious). Funny how lips are sealed on that front.

 

[Barfbag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ydqjqZ_3oc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[NYer]

By the company or the Union?
 
It seems to me that this is exactly why you were not given all your shares up front.
The Power Point presentation and the Q&A to follow stated that they feared a lot of employees would sell at once causing the stock to tank. When in reality, many probably did sell quickly as predicted, but that is exactly what AA wanted. The consensus was the stock would probably take off and therefore if AA only issued 40-50%, they would never have to deliver the second round in 120 days...

 
Not given all your shares up front because that is the way an Equity Distribution in a bankruptcy typically works. It ay be difficult for those with an agenda to grasp but this Equity issue has many, many moving parts and each of them has their interests in hand. They each check on each other to make sure they get what they're supposed to get and not give up more than they should.
 
The people driving this equity issue are the legacy AA stockholders and the Creditors' Committee....not the airline and certainly not the TWU, APA or APFA.
 
As far as your assertion on the stocks and their distribution, the airline is not the one with a vested interest to safeguard the creditors don't get more value they they're supposed to. That job goes to the legacy shareholders which have the deal that THEY receive the profits of the stocks after all the Creditors are paid in full. The stock doesn't revert to the airline but rather goes to the legacy AA shareholders which stand to be the biggest winners in this whole mess.

 

[NYer]

I guess when we run out of shares for the TWU to take, they will use our prefunding match! (and I'm being serious). Funny how lips are sealed on that front.

 
You aren't even very creative.
 
The Match is not an issue and there has been no movement on that front because in order to release the funds from the Trust that holds that money they have to eliminate the retiree medical for those retiree's still receiving that benefit. However, if they eliminate that benefit it makes the retiree's, what? ---A creditor.
 
And what are creditors entitled to? ---Equity.
 
So, if they eliminate that benefit now, that group could lay a claim for equity which the creditors committee in unwilling to satisfy. In order to get around that, they will do their evil deed after the equity is distributed.
 
Sorry. That doesn't fit your conspiracy theory.

 

[AANOTOK]

I heard today that more lawsuits were filed a few days ago, this time in North Texas.

Talked to a guy earlier today who is part of the EO lawsuit. Said he thought the first suit was filed Dec.9th and the one he was part of (North Texas) was filed Jan.30th. Apparently two giant law firms are handling the case and he was told by these lawyers that they he/they absolutely entitled to equity and would prevail.
 
I know I know, what would I/he expect them to say.

 

[DFWFSC]

Talked to a guy earlier today who is part of the EO lawsuit. Said he thought the first suit was filed Dec.9th and the one he was part of (North Texas) was filed Jan.30th. Apparently two giant law firms are handling the case and he was told by these lawyers that they he/they absolutely entitled to equity and would prevail.
 
I know I know, what would I/he expect them to say.

I know most people, including myself, think all the lawsuits wont gain the EO folks anything, but I kinda do wonder why all these lawyers are jumping all over it if there wasn't any merit in it.  I heard that somebody had a video of a union guy telling guys at a meeting they were gonna get it even if they took the EO. Not sure how true that is, or if it makes a difference in the lawsuit.  

 

[AANOTOK]

Funny DFWFSC, I told this individual that I didn't think they would get much if anything from what I have been told. His response, I doubt we will, but the lawyers will make tons and drain the TWU. My response, no, you will just throw away our shares, thanks...and walked away. By the way, 1983 as well!