Retiree Equity Lawsuit Info

[NYer]

 



Not all the EO's voted yes, including myself. And yes, everyone was given the opportunity to take the early out. The TWU was the only union on the property that did not include its members in the equity share who lived under their concessionary contract. I'm over it but want the TWU to fight for my retiree medical match. Is that too much to ask?

 
The pilots and Flight attendants also excluded those that left and would not be facing the changes to their respective CBA's. As a matter of fact, the APA had their issue go to arbitration in which those that left lost the case.

 

[NYer]

Probably did against the company. The lawsuit is against the union. My guess is why not try and see what you get out of it.

 
They can and they will, but we're paying for it.

 

[Jager]

NY.. read your statement slowly... "It  is for recovery of loss during bankruptcy"....  R E C O V E R Y...  I lost $27k - $32K a year when AA was in bankruptcy.... for 10 years...  Are we not entitled to recovery of loss during bankruptcy?

 

[NYer]

Yea 401K is good if the company contributes and no match from the employee. The pilots and flight attendants negotiated this type of deal. The TWU failed and we have to match at least 6 percent to get 5.5 from the company. Care to guess what the company contributes to the pilots? Hint: somewhere in the neighborhood of 16%
TWU failed its members AGAIN!

 
Care to guess how much more of a hit the pilots took in the BK against their pension compared to the other work groups.

 

[NYer]

NY.. read your statement slowly... "It  is for recovery of loss during bankruptcy"....  R E C O V E R Y...  I lost $27k - $32K a year when AA was in bankruptcy.... for 10 years...  Are we not entitled to recovery of loss during bankruptcy?

 
It isn't your personal loss, but the loss in the value of the CBA. The TWU lost a value of $330M in the bankrupcty and that is the estimated amount, plus interest, that the TWU will receive in Equity. With that distribution, the TWU with assistance from financial and legal experts involved in past airline bankruptcies created the methodology for distribution. That method is what will dictate the amount we each get.

 

[Jager]

Ok .. the TWU lost value....
 
Now I have no idea how the TWU lost value (money) when we were paying dues all during bankruptcy. My dues didn't lower because of the concession.. Does the twu experience losses on they're balance sheets whenever there's a lay off? Accounting practices do not work that way..
 
 
To clarify... WE were all TWU paying members all during the bankruptcy period that the TWU "lost value of $330M" 
 
I don't see your point... Let say you worked "under bankruptcy" for 10 years 8 mths and I worked for 10 years 1 mth... You were represented by the TWU as they "lost" $330M.. And I was represented by the TWU when "lost" $310M in "value"
 
My TWU "loss" is prorated for the less time I was represented by these fools..

 

[NYer]

Ok .. the TWU lost value....
 
Now I have no idea how the TWU lost value (money) when we were paying dues all during bankruptcy. My dues didn't lower because of the concession.. Does the twu experience losses on they're balance sheets whenever there's a lay off? Accounting practices do not work that way..
 
 
To clarify... WE were all TWU paying members all during the bankruptcy period that the TWU "lost value of $330M" 
 
I don't see your point... Let say you worked "under bankruptcy" for 10 years 8 mths and I worked for 10 years 1 mth... You were represented by the TWU as they "lost" $330M.. And I was represented by the TWU when "lost" $310M in "value"
 
My TWU "loss" is prorated for the less time I was represented by these fools..

 
The TWU lost $330M from the value of the 7 CBA's modified in the bankruptcy. Is that better for you?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

If they were there when the pension existed? don't they get a portion of the freeze at some point?. The cash incentive is a company benefit because they save in the long run. Maybe they voted no and still got the EO?

You don't seem to understand the frozen pension.  When the pension is frozen you don't accrue any more years worth of pension.  My pension was frozen at 25 years.  I will never accrue more than 25 years worth of pension no matter how long I stay.  Someone who hired in the same day as me that took the money and ran gets the same pension as I do.  I lose credit for all the rest of my time at AA.  Some did vote no and took the EO but most who took it voted yes to get it.  I got equity based on the pension that I will not get for my future years.  The people that left have no future years.  Therefore they don't lose anything.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Old Guy you sound old and bitter.. I voted absolutely no on the concessionary contract that threw out 50 years of negotiated benefits..  The EO incentive was to save effin jobs for the newer, lower paid individuals.. Too bad you weren't as keen with your finances and you are with your mouth, you'd be livin the life .. dic.. 

I am old and bitter.  I already have AA and the TWU stealing from me.  I don't need you doing it too.  Yes it is stealing when you get something you don't deserve.  You are demanding something you have no right to.  I'm sure you don't think I deserve any part of your buyout.  Also save us the story about saving jobs.  You saved no jobs and this contract saved no jobs.  You got an incentive to retire early and took it because it benefited you.  Don't try to make it sound like you threw yourself on your sword for the rest of us.  I have done ok with my finances because I don't live above my means.  As far as my mouth, I have a habit of speaking the truth. If it bothers you then that is on you.  The truth does hurt sometimes.   

 

[Jager]

If you Old... Grumpy... Think the EO was a good deal.. And have never lived above your means...
 
Then why didn't you get the hell out?
 
I worked under the same conditions as you have and got the hell out with 29 years in my early 50's....
 
Aim it at the sorry representation that had stolen for US...
 
Pilots and F/A's seemed to have done alright under the same circumstances..
 
But you know what.. I'm not bitter anymore... Been a year since I got out of the pen... 
 
Keep up the good work so that pension check keeps coming in..

 

[NYer]

If you Old... Grumpy... Think the EO was a good deal.. And have never lived above your means...
 
Then why didn't you get the hell out?
 
I worked under the same conditions as you have and got the hell out with 29 years in my early 50's....
 
Aim it at the sorry representation that had stolen for US...
 
Pilots and F/A's seemed to have done alright under the same circumstances..
 
But you know what.. I'm not bitter anymore... Been a year since I got out of the pen... 
 
Keep up the good work so that pension check keeps coming in..

 
APA and APFA have similar process.

 

[mike33]

You don't seem to understand the frozen pension.  When the pension is frozen you don't accrue any more years worth of pension.  My pension was frozen at 25 years.  I will never accrue more than 25 years worth of pension no matter how long I stay.  Someone who hired in the same day as me that took the money and ran gets the same pension as I do.  I lose credit for all the rest of my time at AA.  Some did vote no and took the EO but most who took it voted yes to get it.  I got equity based on the pension that I will not get for my future years.  The people that left have no future years.  Therefore they don't lose anything.

That explains it a little better. " For future years " . You can't accrue something if you are not there or can't suggest future losses are a true loss if you are not working.  I think i have it now. I thought it was based on previous work givebacks over the years when the EO were actually working. 
 
Thx Old Guy

 

[OldGuy@AA]

If you Old... Grumpy... Think the EO was a good deal.. And have never lived above your means...
 
Then why didn't you get the hell out?
 
I worked under the same conditions as you have and got the hell out with 29 years in my early 50's....
 
Aim it at the sorry representation that had stolen for US...
 
Pilots and F/A's seemed to have done alright under the same circumstances..
 
But you know what.. I'm not bitter anymore... Been a year since I got out of the pen... 
 
Keep up the good work so that pension check keeps coming in..

I still have kids in college so taking the EO was not an option for me.  Also I am probably not as old as you might think I am.  You do get points for voting no on the TA.  I know several others who voted no then decided to take the buyout.  I am actually happy for you that you are doing well.  Hard not to be bitter when it seems everyone is getting my money except me.

 

[1AA]

Care to guess how much more of a hit the pilots took in the BK against their pension compared to the other work groups.

. Glad you asked. I spoke to a pilot a few months back about this very issue. This guy is sharp on numbers and he said with the 16% contribution they are down about 2 to 3 percent. How much of a hit did we take?

 

[dfw gen]

The TWU lost $330M from the value of the 7 CBA's modified in the bankruptcy. Is that better for you?

no WE LOST 330 million the TWU lost nothing in fact they got a raise!