Reserve Petition

[desertgal]

OK, y'all, I'm going nuts here trying to figger out exactly what you mean by "overfly"...no one is responding to my PMs.
Does East have a cap on monthly hours?
West does not. You can work whatever you can fit on there, DPU or ETB, and the program won't allow it if its not legal.

Another question: WHY, WHY would anyone actually WANT PBS?

 

[LCC_#1]

D
LCC also wrong in saying that reserves are getting 103 hours in six days. The reserves only get ll days free of duty in the month. They are flying at the least 20 days of the month to get 103 hours not 6.
Do I have to move to Texas?

Ok, exageraated a bit..more like 9 days, not 20..give me a break..one has to pick up a trip at the beginning of the month so that you get to the bottom of the rsv list. If you go into the new month with time, you probably won't get called. But I do know many that are flying WAAAAYY less making 103 hours than the blockholders.

As far as eleven days off? Hum, I usually have to fly at LEAST 18 days for 82 hours. Thats 12 days off. Wow, my heart is bleeding! One extra day off..I'm honored and touched. BTW, if circumstances arise, my days off as a blockholder could be taken if the commpany is short and IF and I say IF they catch me. You Easties know what I mean.

As far as families? Sorry, not my problem or concern. What part of travel and restricted reserve quaility of life do "family" folk not get with this job? And it ain't just US Airways. I will always contend this job should be for single people. If you CHOOSE to go the married family route, that is YOUR choice. The company shouldn't change it's structure for you just because you are addicted to the lifestyle AND want the more structured family life. And BELIEVE me when I say I am more than happy that life has provided a way to eliminate that prospect for me. 😉

As far as the etb is concerned, I do know the restrictions that are there for reserves, but there ARE trips out there and some bases like PHL have PLENTY of trips in the time span needed for rsvs. I am not a lineholder that stays in my world. I do talk to the rsvs and care about their needs. Yes there are two sides, but I hear the other side too many times at nauseom and it angers me when the other side is not presented.

One more etb issue. Even if a reserve has learned the sytem and worked TWELVE days for 103 hours, for me as a lineholder to fly 103 hours, I would have to fly 24 days. AND if a rsv DOES have to work 20 days... which I think is exaggerated...that is STILL 4 days less than me, a lineholder. Where is THAT fair? Yes, I could bid rsv and maybe do the same, but I don't choose to and understand that life isn't fair. Why can't SOME RSVS learn that? It's funny how many people I know that are sneakering behind the blockholder's backs because they have learned to work the system to their advantage. Perhaps by complaining that will prohibit other blockholders from jumping ship.

Regardless, reserve is never easy and I don't care what system is out there, there will always be heated discussions. We at US East never knew how easy our reserves had it say 15 years ago.

My only concern is that, while I know many concerns are real and many do not get their time in, I just want a fair and balanced look. Ooo, I'm sounding like Fox News

 

[N965VJ]

OK, about 15 posts ago I asked:

Why not file a Grievance?

Is there some reason why this cannot be done?

 

[LCC_#1]

OK, y'all, I'm going nuts here trying to figger out exactly what you mean by "overfly"...no one is responding to my PMs.
Does East have a cap on monthly hours?
West does not. You can work whatever you can fit on there, DPU or ETB, and the program won't allow it if its not legal.

Another question: WHY, WHY would anyone actually WANT PBS?

D Gal

Overfly is when a lineholder exceeds their block hours. Example...My line is worth 82 hours. I am obligated to fly that 82 hours with a window of 2 hours under or over the said obligation.

SAP allows you the oppotunity to drop trips down to 60 hours. Lets say you need a weekend off and you are scheduled to work and REALLY need it off. You can drop that trip in SAP...no questions asked, unless restricted holiday. Well, that's all well and good BUT you STILL have to make up that time and it must be done by using the AIL, which means trips available each day to pick up the day before. You would still have to fly your scheduled obligation of 82 hours.

BTW, some months the company has required the f/a's obligation to go up 5 hours. That has been easing up lately.

If you dropped a 20 hour 4 day trip on that weekend that you needed off and was dropped down to 64 hours and could somehow drop the next 20 hour trip on the ETB leaving you with 44 hours, your obligation to the company would then be 64 hours because the only way you can decress your obligation in by dropping a trip on the ETB. Since you would be down to 44 hours now, you would have to pick up 20 hours off the AIL to get you back to your company obligation of NOW 64 hours. You can still pick up on the ail to 82. You just aren't OBLIGATED.

By the same token, you could take your chance and just drop your needed weekend 20 hour trip on the ETB (if you think it will go with no problem) and instantly you have lowered your company obligation. The SAP system would guarantee that weekend off.

Regardless, you can pick up as much time on the ETB as you can stomach, providing the time is there.

It sounds confusing. Our system of bidding each month is a two month process, so you have to think about how important it is to either use SAP to get rid of a trip or wait to list it on the ETB. Just remember, our ETB is the company's way of washing their hands of hour options which we had for years..50-55. 70-75, 90-95, and 100-105.

As far a PB, I will agree that the most senior picked a big old biitch fit, but I think the company got in over their heads and left a gray part as an out. PITBULL...if she reads this will be able to set that straight as she knew Teddy well.

The thought behind it was that there would be more blockholders, but there seems to be alot of theories behind all this.

I am with you. FLEXIBILITY rules and since East management crammed the AWA contract down our throats, we should INSIST UPON THE SAME VACATION!! No MORE, no LESS!!

I hope this helps. If you want to talk over the phone, pm your phone # and I will call you.

 

[TheWatcher]

Do I have to move to Texas?
[/quote]


Have to be willing to go to any of our worldwide locations, but Texas would be at the top of the list 🙂

 

[kobe1]

D Gal

Overfly is when a lineholder exceeds their block hours. Example...My line is worth 82 hours. I am obligated to fly that 82 hours with a window of 2 hours under or over the said obligation.

SAP allows you the oppotunity to drop trips down to 60 hours. Lets say you need a weekend off and you are scheduled to work and REALLY need it off. You can drop that trip in SAP...no questions asked, unless restricted holiday. Well, that's all well and good BUT you STILL have to make up that time and it must be done by using the AIL, which means trips available each day to pick up the day before. You would still have to fly your scheduled obligation of 82 hours.

BTW, some months the company has required the f/a's obligation to go up 5 hours. That has been easing up lately.

If you dropped a 20 hour 4 day trip on that weekend that you needed off and was dropped down to 64 hours and could somehow drop the next 20 hour trip on the ETB leaving you with 44 hours, your obligation to the company would then be 64 hours because the only way you can decress your obligation in by dropping a trip on the ETB. Since you would be down to 44 hours now, you would have to pick up 20 hours off the AIL to get you back to your company obligation of NOW 64 hours. You can still pick up on the ail to 82. You just aren't OBLIGATED.

By the same token, you could take your chance and just drop your needed weekend 20 hour trip on the ETB (if you think it will go with no problem) and instantly you have lowered your company obligation. The SAP system would guarantee that weekend off.

Regardless, you can pick up as much time on the ETB as you can stomach, providing the time is there.

It sounds confusing. Our system of bidding each month is a two month process, so you have to think about how important it is to either use SAP to get rid of a trip or wait to list it on the ETB. Just remember, our ETB is the company's way of washing their hands of hour options which we had for years..50-55. 70-75, 90-95, and 100-105.

As far a PB, I will agree that the most senior picked a big old biitch fit, but I think the company got in over their heads and left a gray part as an out. PITBULL...if she reads this will be able to set that straight as she knew Teddy well.

The thought behind it was that there would be more blockholders, but there seems to be alot of theories behind all this.

I am with you. FLEXIBILITY rules and since East management crammed the AWA contract down our throats, we should INSIST UPON THE SAME VACATION!! No MORE, no LESS!!

I hope this helps. If you want to talk over the phone, pm your phone # and I will call you.

 

[desertgal]

OK, I'm following you, it NUTS, but I'm following.
So the good part of the SAP is you can get something off if you really need it, but the bad part is, you are still responsible to pick up the same amount of credit. That is similar to West's vacation drop.
What sounds bad, tho, is that you can only pick up the company open time 2 days out, if I'm reading that correctly.
Company open time, and personal trades should be open to all FAs equally. As much as you care to fit on your line, no cap, no min. (70 is the min for everyone)
At West, it has nothing to do with seniority.
Only who is willing to spend all day at the airport waiting for DPU to open so they can get first crack.
We do have our 'cliques' as someone else mentioned, holding the 'turn days' (PHX to the east coast and back, usually 10cr or so for one day) and now the best Hawaii flying for their own club. They are lovingly called The Cartel.

Not sure what part of AWA's contract was crammed down your throat, cuz it sure wasn't scheduling!
And, it should only take you 16days to make 82cr at West.
Our pairings can be more productive, since a/c type can be mixed, and we aren't limited by the pilot duty limitations.

PBS removes ALL scheduling conflict, since trips are awarded as opposed to entire lines. And only what will fit on your line around vacay, carry-in, or training. Thus you are losing a good amount of flexibility.
And, it becomes very hard to bid for SPECIFIC trip pairings that you might like. You are only bidding for 'parameters' such as days off, report times, trip length, etc.
I used conflict to be done for the month on Dec. 20th last year. No way could I ever hold that off with PBS.

I understand about having as many lineholders as possible, but doubt that PBS is the answer.
Is there a secondary, or 'relief' bid at East?

 

[LCC_#1]

OK, I'm following you, it NUTS, but I'm following.
So the good part of the SAP is you can get something off if you really need it, but the bad part is, you are still responsible to pick up the same amount of credit. That is similar to West's vacation drop.
What sounds bad, tho, is that you can only pick up the company open time 2 days out, if I'm reading that correctly.


Not sure what part of AWA's contract was crammed down your throat, cuz it sure wasn't scheduling!
And, it should only take you 16days to make 82cr at West.

I understand about having as many lineholders as possible, but doubt that PBS is the answer.
Is there a secondary, or 'relief' bid at East?

Guuurl,

Geez, I need a beer for this one. Yes, it's nuts, but it's always nuts learning new systems. You understand SAP now somewhat.

May have worst news. You can only pick up off the AIL 1 day in advance. If you can't leave your list by the 12 noon deadline the day before, you can do so before your trip starts (Transatlantic would be in Europe during the deadline) that prohibits you from leaving a list.

The overall COST of your contract was crammed down our throat. First it was SWA. Then they got raises and the company said said...uh..no. Then they strived for JBlue and WE said...uh..no. So, the second choice was AWA. They figured if we had your contract we could make money. Meanwhile, we gave back vacation and work rules that in many ways put us below you guys. So when the company started the parity whining and how it would cost them, we at East just shook our heads in utter disbelief. You guys shouldn't take it on the chin because we went too far. And management should have thought about this before they consummated their marriage.

We have secondary lines (as opposed to primary lines, which I hold). They come out after SAP awards are given. Thats why we bid two months out.

Right now lines will be coming out soon for May. Bidding will close somewhere around the 25th...depending when bids open.

Awards come out within 24 hours depending on your senority. I usually know by the next am.

At 1800, SAP opens to give up trips, pick up trips, or try to change your entire schedule around.

SAP closes one week later. Within a day, you know if you got any of your choices.

Within a few days (not sure how many as I hold a primary line...sorry) secondary lines come out and close a week later and awards within 24 hrs.

And then reserve lines.

Our ETB opens the 23rd of each month so ETB will open for April will open on March 23.

I hope this helps some more.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

I will say this... The days of the USAirways flight attendant rolling around in the mud 50 times with their respective seniority are just about over. Once it's all said and done it will be one bite at the apple with your seniority and MOVE ALONG like every other major carrier. Reading the above gives me a headache. No one can half keep track of anything going on. There is always a bid for something. It's like you must bid in the PHL crew room just to go to the bathroom now days. Like a pack of wild dogs fighting for a pork chop.

 

[LCC_#1]

It's like you must bid in the PHL crew room to go to the bathroom now days.

Of what I have seen of the PHL bathrooms? 😛h34r:

 

[ItsNotThatSerious]

Also, just because you DROP a trip on the ETB, it DOESN'T mean you don't want the time. It could mean you need those days off, don't like who you are flying with, or just don't like the trip and want to pick up something else.

The above was a quote be Kobe1 from a previous post

WOW...and the only way a reserve can get out of an on-call day is to call out sick. Gosh if the rest of the working world only had it so easy...not come to work on a day your scheduled because you have something else to do..or better yet cause they dont like their co-worker. GET A CLUE!!!

 

[N109UW]

First of all, let's get one thing straight. The ETB was developed so that BH's could drop time, to get down to the 50 hour range, once US East got rid of all the flying options. Since the 55 hour option was gone, BH's now put their time on the tradeboard hoping someone(BH or RSV) picks it up. A sad side effect is that a RSV has to give up their days off to pick up this time. The only way a RSV would do this, is if the company agreed to put that time above a RSV's min. guarantee. If they hadn't agreed to this, most BH's would be flying 80-85 hours. Why would a RSV give up a days off for pay credit, when the company doesn't fly them 73 hours to begin with. Most BH's should pray that never changes, or they will end up flying more hours. RSV's didn't want this new system, but they are surely working it too their advantage. If any Bh's thinks a RSV has it so great, then drop on down(a few have), but most realize it's not that great. I laugh when I fly with a BH who says RSV's have it made, it just shows how out of touch some people really are. They usually change their thinking, once I enlighten them on a few points.

 

[LCC_#1]

First of all, let's get one thing straight. The ETB was developed so that BH's could drop time, to get down to the 50 hour range, once US East got rid of all the flying options. Since the 55 hour option was gone, BH's now put their time on the tradeboard hoping someone(BH or RSV) picks it up. A sad side effect is that a RSV has to give up their days off to pick up this time. The only way a RSV would do this, is if the company agreed to put that time above a RSV's min. guarantee. If they hadn't agreed to this, most BH's would be flying 80-85 hours. Why would a RSV give up a days off for pay credit, when the company doesn't fly them 73 hours to begin with. Most BH's should pray that never changes, or they will end up flying more hours. RSV's didn't want this new system, but they are surely working it too their advantage. If any Bh's thinks a RSV has it so great, then drop on down(a few have), but most realize it's not that great. I laugh when I fly with a BH who says RSV's have it made, it just shows how out of touch some people really are. They usually change their thinking, once I enlighten them on a few points.

I agree 109. I just want folks to know there IS another side instead of the constant dribble that comes across the threads. Now I haven't spoken to ALL the rsvs, but DO talk to them and it has been my own experience that the ones who biitch and moan the most are those that commute and those with families. The inbase single have learned to deal with it and get around things. I don't think that means I or anyone think rsvs have it MADE. I just think it's nice to see people learn how to stick to the company by learning how to take advantage of the system. If it were so bad, I highly doubt the 10 people I know who chose to be on rsv would.

 

[ItsNotThatSerious]

Hmm...maybe we should try rotating reserve. AA does it and so does WN. Few months as a block holder... then a month on call...would be fair for all!!!

 

[andyperkins]

Hmm...maybe we should try rotating reserve. AA does it and so does WN. Few months as a block holder... then a month on call...would be fair for all!!!

This was brought to the floor at one of the PHL local meetings by the members in attendance and voted on at the meeting to add as an agenda item at the next MEC meeting in PIT. It went to the MEC and was unanimously voted down by the MEC in 2003