Required Reading

[BoeingBoy]

The Truth,

"Labor costs at the legacies are at least twice as high as the discounters."

Since U (the highest cost legacy) does not have labor costs "twice as high" as WN, either on a CASM basis or on an average total compensation basis, I'd love to see your basis for this statement. Could it be that you're doing what everyone making such statements does - cherrypick the carrier with the lowest employee compensation and use that to make such broad-brush statements?

Jim

 

[cavalier]

This is why I expect that all labor contracts will change -with or without- the employees participation. ALPA, CWA and AFA are heading in the right direction.

The thing that will change is the fact that you and your cronies will fail miserably at playing the IAM for buffoons and the result will be planes that don't fly and an airline that will cease to exist. This will be you and your so called managements team's legacy. You will be known as a member from a losing team where the lies, deceit and ineptitude finally caught up with this sorry excuse for a management team.

 

[PITbull]

Pure and simple, Southwest has a business model that makes productive use of ALL assets - labor and non-labor. Hence their low cost per ASM in both catagories.

US, on the other hand, has a business model that uses all assets - both labor and non-labor - inefficiently, and the effects of the inefficient business model were magnified by 25% shrinkage in the post-911 environment. Hence our high cost per ASM in both catagories.

Management has been trying to increase efficiency by "doing more with less people" since 911 - how many of the people that have left since then have been replaced (not counting upper management). We carry more passengers further and produce more ASM's than when we emerged from bankruptcy. The result of this means of being efficient - basically nil, since our CASM is pretty much the same.

Jim

And sticking in RJs will only futher increase CASMs, whereby nulifying labor's givebacks which are to decrease CASMs.

The RJ equation is the antithesist of what mainline is trying to endeavor with regard to the CASMs.

Pretty sick plan huh?

 

[SpinDoc]

The thing that will change is the fact that you and your cronies will fail miserably at playing the IAM for buffoons and the result will be planes that don't fly and an airline that will cease to exist. This will be you and your so called managements team's legacy. You will be known as a member from a losing team where the lies, deceit and ineptitude finally caught up with this sorry excuse for a management team.

Blah, Blah, Blah. Blah.

Good luck in your new career Mr. Cavalier. US will
move on WITH or WITHOUT you and your negative
naysayers.

Thanks for the entertainment though.

 

[PITbull]

The legacy carriers will have to deal with the challenges that include fuel, high labor costs, aircraft utilization, fleet size and uniformity, Internet distribution and pricing strategies. Labor costs are only one constituent of the enigma. Labor costs at the legacies are at least twice as high as the discounters. Unions benefited from the growth during the late 90’s to negotiate favorable contracts that increased labor costs to unparalleled levels. The LCCs have changed the game and labor contracts must coincide with the LCCs. This is why I expect that all labor contracts will change -with or without- the employees participation. ALPA, CWA and AFA are heading in the right direction.

Considering your Labor calculations, how do you compute SW and their labor costs being the highest in the Industry.

My take.....THEY HAVE GREAT MANAGMENT AND THE EMPLOYEES MORALE REFLECT THAT MANAGEMENT!

 

[cavalier]

Blah, Blah, Blah. Blah.

Good luck in your new career Mr. Cavalier. US will
move on WITH or WITHOUT you and your negative
naysayers.

Thanks for the entertainment though.

I am afraid not because like I said, planes don't fly without the mechanics, ask the FAA.


You and your kind down at CCY have met your match because we have been pushed too damn far, and that scares the deleted by moderator out of you and your sorry pathetic team called management.

 

[mweiss]

US will move on WITH or WITHOUT you and your negative
naysayers.

I suppose you're right...you are including cessation of operations in the phrase "move on," right?

 

[PITbull]

YUP! Here they come...all the managment types coming out of the wood work to blast IAM....

Blah, blah, blah, here we go again with management and their "we'll do it with you or with out you nonsense.

YEA, WELL SEE YOU IN CHAPTER 7...I AM SURE YOU CAN DO THAT ALL BY YOURSELVES!!!

 

[cavalier]

Interesting! Wonder what you will say if the company not only survives but goes on to thrive?

Whose fault will that be? Why as always it's the evil Republicans! Or perhaps the true "Spawn of Satan" George W, Bush.

The IAM Members are just like the rest of the USA. They vote with their wallets. When it comes down to a choice of mking another 20% less and throwing others under the bus versus Government cheese, unemployment & possible personal BK. They will vote to save themselves.

Bob, I don't read you drivel because it's like reading some crazy science fiction novel that makes no sense, plus I really don’t like you, but, what I really want to know is why hasn't your quote been deleted like my original post?

 

[cavalier]

YEA, WELL SEE YOU IN CHAPTER 7

Amen and Praise the Lord, the sooner the better.

 

[mweiss]

Labor costs at the legacies are at least twice as high as the discounters.

For someone who claims to represent "the truth," you've got some 'splaining to do.

Yes, if I go to my 2003 numbers, lump all LCCs together and compare their nonweighted average with the nonweighted average of all legacies, then I get almost exactly twice as high (LCC labor CASM 2.33¢, legacy labor CASM 4.73¢). Not so if I use weighted averages, however, since WN dwarfs all other LCCs combined.

The LCC numbers are pulled down significantly by ATA and JetBlue.

Try a few other comparisons. The most expensive legacy (sorry, Jim, it's DL at 5.27¢) is less than twice the cost of the most expensive LCC (WN at 3.09¢).

The least expensive legacy (CO at 4.02¢) is just a hair over twice the cost of the least expensive LCC (B6 at 1.95¢)

Your blanket statement is only true from some very limited, specific perspectives. Care to share your numbers?

 

[700UW]

Bob, it is not making 20% less.

It is about laying off several thousand mechanic and related employees and go down to no utility, no stock clerks and 800 mechanics.

 

[700UW]

well I stand by my statement. If you are high enough on the seniority list you throw the other workgroups under the bus to save YOUR job. Pure and simple.

Unions are about the collective whole, not individuals.

I could not vote to throw 4,000+ people out of work to save my own hyde.

Main Entry: labor union
Function: noun
Date: 1866
: an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members' interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions

 

[cavalier]

Bob, it is not making 20% less.

It is about laying off several thousand mechanic and related employees and go down to no utility, no stock clerks and 800 mechanics.

700. I don't know why you even bother to reply to this guy. He was on here right after the bus thing saying how wrong management was, now he is on here telling us how wrong we are for not going along with management. This kind of behavior points to a utterly senseless and totally confused individual. Oh, I forgot about his meeting with management and his brain washing session.

Let us not forget what is right and what is wrong to this guy. Right = screw your fellow worker. Wrong = Not screwing your fellow worker as a preemptive strike.

Yes. Bob is a paying passenger___SO WHAT?

 

[mweiss]

Unions are about the collective whole, not individuals.

And this is precisely how the unions get played. Push for something that makes 60% of the members better off and lays off 40%, and the agreement will pass.

That's what PineyBob was saying (I think).