Recall letters reach the 99' "newhire" pilots

[Rico]

Actually the real interesting part will come in the near future, when the recall process reaches down to the last 100 numbers on the APL... These being the pilots that came to the Mainline in 04 from ALG/PDT to fly the E170.

Interesting in that our pilot "friends" over at AWA have suggested that these pilots be excluded from any recall in their merger proposal (being discussed in the ongoing arbitration).

But timing might work against that, as the acceptance rate for E-190 FO positions is low enough that some of these pilots may very well be recalled to active service before the arbitrator's decision is announced. (And it will likely be a ways into this group as the more senior of these pilots are going to be "held" at Republic + PSA).

And the even more interesting part will be when they "run out" of pilots on the APL willing to accept the E-190 FO position, aND actual newhires (2007/08 DOH) flying the E-190 while some AAA pilots are still on furlough (by choice) is quite likely. (Much like the E-170 positions were filled by "newhires" when they could no longer fill them with avail. APL pilots).

Gee, commercial aviation sure is a strange career, eh...?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hey Jim! Just how do you feel about getting denied access to the ALPA BB's by AAA's Mec, after you Retired??

A pretty simple question with a slightly complicated answer....

Since I knew it was going to happen, I wasn't shocked when it did happen.

It has been a slight inconvenience 2 or 3 times, the first being when I found out just how fast ALPA could act when they wanted. I needed the email address or phone number of the R&I Committee guys the day after my 60th birthday because some question came up and I couldn't log in.

Then there's the comical - I still get pilots calling with bid questions because the MEC Hotline people gave them my number. I certainly don't mind that a bit, and as long as the bid award process doesn't change I can still offer some assistance, but I guess the memo about my retirement went to the webboard administrator first and hasn't finished making the rounds of the MEC office yet.

Then there's the more philosophical answer - it was a pretty petty act on the part of some MEC members to stifle voices they didn't want to hear. Voices coming from some at both ends of the spectrum. So they banned all retired and those furloughed they could jusify silencing.

Jim

 

[2BorNot2B]

A pretty simple question with a slightly complicated answer....

Then there's the more philosophical answer - it was a pretty petty act on the part of some MEC members to stifle voices they didn't want to hear. Voices coming from some at both ends of the spectrum. So they banned all retired and those furloughed they could jusify silencing.

Jim

Thanks for the explanation!

Sounds like something Bush would like to do!

2B

 

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy said: "If you're not getting anything from the furlough administrator, you might try contacting the PHL F/O rep since he was furloughed and then at MDA (I think)."

USA320Pilot comments: The PHL Council 41 F/O Rep. Dave Ciabattoni was never furloughed. BoeingBoy is referring to PHL Council 41Secretary/Treasurer Jim Portale was furloughed and worked at MDA. Jim could be a useful resource for those contemplating recall.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[autofixer]

BoeingBoy said: "If you're not getting anything from the furlough administrator, you might try contacting the PHL F/O rep since he was furloughed and then at MDA (I think)."

USA320Pilot comments: The PHL Council 41 F/O Rep. Dave Ciabattoni was never furloughed. BoeingBoy is referring to PHL Council 41Secretary/Treasurer Jim Portale was furloughed and worked at MDA. Jim could be a useful resource for those contemplating recall.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Maybe you should have read the next few posts after this one; your about to get flammed big time!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Nah, I don't mind being wrong as long as someone is around to correct me and get the accurate info out. I even screwed it up the second time - still have Dave on my mind while Jim is the Sec/Treasurer.

Jim

 

[PA18]

Does anyone have a feel of how the reserve system works now vs pre-9/11? Is there still a long-call/short-call system? Can we still pass up trips, get trips from future, etc..?

Considering 99 hires may be stuck on reserve for a long period of time, this may be something to consider before accepting a recall.

The two things to consider when contemplating recall to reserve are:

1) Seniority means nothing on reserve now, except for the fact that scheduling can use it against you. For example, if two pilots are in the same bucket and have the exact same amount of time for the month (as at the beginning of the month when everybody is at 00:00), the senior pilot is assigned and must fly the trip. There is no more passing.

Also, transitioning from regular (long call) to short reserve is done in inverse seniority. The junior person eligible to be transitioned will always be transitioned.

2) This could be the big one, for family people. Unlike in years past, when a pilot could call out of time for the month at 80:01, you now cannot call out of time for the month -- or it is practically impossible to do so.

The only way to call out of time is to reach the FAR maximum of 100 hours hard flight time in any given month; or achieve 285 hours pay-and-credit within three consecutive months (an average of 95 hours a month). And remember, deadhead time -- which reserves see a lot of -- does not count as either hard time for FAR's or pay-and-credit for scheduling.

So, you should plan on not being able to get home a couple of days early at the end of the month; and on having only 11 days a month available to travel to, from, and be at home.

I hopes this helps rather than further complicates your decision.

 

[Furloughedagain]

My biggest question is how can I avoid the E190. If they don't intend to provide aircraft or domicile until you show up for class, then there is simply no way to be 100% assured that I have avoided that airframe.

And, for better or for worse, I simply can not commute, get a crashpad, get transportation, etc. for the payrates on that equipment. Which is a shame, because it looks like it would be an amazing airplane to fly. Unfortunately i can not allow myself to fall victim to shiny-jet syndrome.

The E190 is a nonstarter and the association needs to find a way to allow it's bypass prior to showing up for class.

 

[Swaayze]

My biggest question is how can I avoid the E190. If they don't intend to provide aircraft or domicile until you show up for class, then there is simply no way to be 100% assured that I have avoided that airframe.

And, for better or for worse, I simply can not commute, get a crashpad, get transportation, etc. for the payrates on that equipment. Which is a shame, because it looks like it would be an amazing airplane to fly. Unfortunately i can not allow myself to fall victim to shiny-jet syndrome.

The E190 is a nonstarter and the association needs to find a way to allow it's bypass prior to showing up for class.

I think when they officially notify you of your recall (not the initial "prepare to maybe be recalled" letter) they should be able to tell you what is available at your seniority and you could bypass at that time. As I read it the initial letter is simply to help them avoid having to query every single pilot when a slot becomes available. I certainly don't "know" any of this for a fact but that's the impression I've pieced together over the past few months.

I guess I'll try emailing the Furlough Administrator/Coordinator again with some more questions, though he never responded to me last time so maybe someone else would have better luck.

IIRC there are a couple of people here or on another forum that may be accepting recall and could give possibly give us a quick synopsis of how it's working....Chevyman I think was gonna accept; Mr. BowTie can you help us?

Thanks again to all who've given us some insight.


BTW, how are the days off grouped on RSV? 11 guaranteed IIRC, but is it 2/2/2/2/3 or 3/3/3/2 or random? And does LCC have a good commuter policy nowadays?

 

[BoeingBoy]

And does LCC have a good commuter policy nowadays?

Despite the quid pro quo promised in 2004 by LOA 91, it's the same commuter policy that's always existed - none, as far as I know.

Jim

 

[Swaayze]

Despite the quid pro quo promised in 2004 by LOA 91, it's the same commuter policy that's always existed - none, as far as I know.

Jim

Ouch, lovely. Thanks.


FWIW to those following this thread, here's the email I sent to the Furlough Coordinator via email just now. I'll commence holding my breath 'til I receive a response.


Hi XXXX,

There are a number of us furloughees who are very interested in having some more information regarding recalls. Unfortunately many of us are still locked out of the LCC ALPA webboards, and I'm (and I'd assume many others are as well) evidently still not on an email list to receive your updates (the recent one from a month or so ago was never received). I have also recently emailed you with some questions at the xxx.xxx address but never received a reply. Please forgive the number of questions as I'm sure you're busy, but the truth is there are many of us who are really in the dark as to how this is progressing and what our responsibilities and options really are for recall.


What exactly is the request stated in the "possible recall" letters that are going out?

Does our response obligate us in any way or is it simply a tool to speed up the process by eliminating those who are not at all interested right now?

How do we safely and effectively respond to the "possible recall" letter if we are willing to take Group 2 but not 190?

Is there a specific protocol for our response or is it freestyle?

If we bypass this round can we then plan to accept at the next available recall or do we have to wait until they bounce up from the bottom of the list?

If we indicate a desire to bypass now, how do we then make ourselves available for a slot when we're ready to accept, say next bid?

Is it true that we have unlimited bypass rights for the 190 FO seat? Is it true that our recall rights do not expire until all pilots junior have either accepted a group 2 seat or resigned?

How can we get a copy of the current contract and transition agreements so we know exactly what we're getting into? Could you please email me copies of these if you have access to them?

How can we get up to date APLs? Could you please email me a copy of the latest one?


Please forward this information asap, as well as any additional info you may have that would be of benefit to us furloughees who are contemplating a return.


Thank you,
(swaayze)

 

[Furloughedagain]

Good work Swaayze,

Let us know what you find out please.

Also might be nice to know what kind of correspondence we get when it's our "last chance".

 

[autofixer]

I just looked at bid 07-03 and it appears that 52 76I F/O positions went unfilled in PHL and 6 76D f/o positions went unfilled. There are 9 unfilled f/o A319 and 13 737 f/o slots in DCA. 25 737 f/o and 39 A319 f/o positions in PHL. There are only 4 unfilled E190 slots in PHL. There are 13 319 slots in LGA and 15 at BOS unfilled for May. I guess recalls will fill all of these positions for May.

 

[Swaayze]

I just looked at bid 07-03 and it appears that 52 76I F/O positions went unfilled in PHL and 6 76D f/o positions went unfilled. There are 9 unfilled f/o A319 and 13 737 f/o slots in DCA. 25 737 f/o and 39 A319 f/o positions in PHL. There are only 4 unfilled E190 slots in PHL. There are 13 319 slots in LGA and 15 at BOS unfilled for May. I guess recalls will fill all of these positions for May.

Looks like 176 vacancies w/ only 4 to the 190. Good news for the recalls. Thank you for the info.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You beat me to it!!!! I got a little different count, but here's my list of unfilled positions:

767I F/O
- 43 PHL

767D F/O
- 6 PHL

A319 F/O
- 12 CLT
- 9 DCA
- 40 PHL
- 15 LGA

737 F/O
- 2 PIT
- 3 CLT
- 13 DCA
- 25 PHL

E190 F/O
- 4 PHL

Jim