Railroad Union Strike Threat Kneecapped by Biden

[WeAAsles]

Yeah, and I know people who are millionaires off of Amway. It's still a Ponzi scheme.

Says the guy forever on the outside looking in. Like I said, obsession.

 

[Kev3188]

I’m happy your pension is at $1k/mo. I’ve got one from NW that’s frozen. It’ll pay on a multiplier of $51/mo.

The other is the IAMNPF. That one is more or less frozen and at max gets me $130ish/mo. That plan is an albatross.

There’s a reason why I’m so outspoken about pushing for industry leading 401k contributions & match.

 

[WeAAsles]

I’m happy your pension is at $1k/mo. I’ve got one from NW that’s frozen. It’ll pay on a multiplier of $51/mo.

The other is the IAMNPF. That one is more or less frozen and at max gets me $130ish/mo. That plan is an albatross.

There’s a reason why I’m so outspoken about pushing for industry leading 401k contributions & match.

Well it is off topic but we have covered how I think you should have multiple legs on your financial chair. The more the better including 401k and Pensions. No Crypto.

 

[Kev3188]

Multiple legs are good, but not when one of those is chained to the wall and won't let you move it to another room.

 

[WeAAsles]

Multiple legs are good, but not when one of those is chained to the wall and won't let you move it to another room.

Kev it’s the same thing as Social Security. I can’t collect that till I’m 62 either. So that stays locked up till I’m old and so does my Pension. Otherwise I could be enticed to draw from it frivolously and where might that leave me if I can’t work anymore or can’t do what I’m doing that pays more than I would get if I needed to go bag groceries. (Old broken body)

BTW that Pension is not chained to a wall. If you leave and it’s vested you get what is owed to you. If I left AA after my Pension vested it’s still mine to collect when I pull the trigger.

My friend Jerry left AA 15 years ago at 40. When he hit 55 he started drawing that AA Pension. He took the SSNRA option to maximize his payout so he could relax a little more now while he continues to work the job he left AA for.

Even that 401k you love so much has a 10% Tax penalty if you start drawing it too early.

 

[Kev3188]

BTW that Pension is not chained to a wall. If you leave and it’s vested you get what is owed to you. If I left AA after my Pension vested it’s still mine to collect when I pull the trigger.

Sure, you can leave, but your pension stops growing the second you do. It's not portable the way a 401k is. Further, that money never really belongs to you until you start drawing it. It's a sword employers hold over you--and they know it.

With a 401k, the money is yours the second it hits your account every 2 weeks.

Your condo isn't portable, but you can sell it anytime and redeploy that capital elsewhere.

And the "benefit" of a pension is based on the idea that a worker will stay in the same company (and even some department) for 25-30 years. That model grows more and more outdated with each passing day.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sure, you can leave, but your pension stops growing the second you do. It's not portable the way a 401k is. Further, that money never really belongs to you until you start drawing it. It's a sword employers hold over you--and they know it.

With a 401k, the money is yours the second it hits your account every 2 weeks.

Your condo isn't portable, but you can sell it anytime and redeploy that capital elsewhere.

And the "benefit" of a pension is based on the idea that a worker will stay in the same company (and even some department) for 25-30 years. That model grows more and more outdated with each passing day.

Kev I don’t want my money so easily accessible. I have a responsibility to save money for Old WeAAsles. And there are some sweet looking ladies out there that would love to drain those accounts if I’m not careful. As we’ve gone back and forth on this too many times to count now I’m sorry you got burned by that particular retirement vehicle. People got burned by Crypto and Madoff too though.

I told you my friend Jerry left 15 years ago. He’s drawing about $1500 a month now for the next 7 years. 55 to 62. And he’s also going to get a Court Officer Pension when he retires now as well as putting tons of money in his version of a 401K.

 

[Kev3188]

Those "particular retirement vehicles" are both holding labor back, and make organizing more difficult.

 

[WeAAsles]

Those "particular retirement vehicles" are both holding labor back, and make organizing more difficult.

That is not true at all. Young people don’t even think about the best retirement options when they first start. And as a matter of fact they don’t even care about Medical. Kev in my small station it’s like pulling teeth to get new hires to start their 401’s. All of us Senior guys keep telling them they’re throwing away money by not putting in at least 4% and we still can’t drag them to a Computer.

Young people want pay now. What’s holding people back and making it difficult for the Airlines to keep them is that stupid 12 year payscale. That light at the end of the tunnel is too far away for them to see. Change that scale to 8 or 9 years and turnover will dramatically drop.

 

[Kev3188]

It’s 100% true, and for exactly the reason you mentioned. People today wanna get paid now, and they’re not planning to stay in one spot forever.

And good on you guys for telling people to find their 401ks. If even one listens, it’ll be worth it. They’ll see. I did when I was their age.

 

[WeAAsles]

It’s 100% true, and for exactly the reason you mentioned. People today wanna get paid now, and they’re not planning to stay in one spot forever.

And good on you guys for telling people to find their 401ks. If even one listens, it’ll be worth it. They’ll see. I did when I was their age.

As usual on this subject we’ll have to at least partially agree to disagree. I didn’t want to “port” my butt to any other job after I got into AA and I think even with all the headaches and hiccups throughout my career I’m setting up my post working years pretty well.

High turnover where I am cause they all want to get down to MIA where they can have more flexibility. And every new person (young person) I meet I try to steer them. I’ve gotten a few throughout my career.

 

[eolesen]

Nah, Kev'ss right that a pension does handcuff somebody to stay at the same place. I've got relatives that work in government jobs and they will never leave because they don't want to lose their pension.

Personally, I'd rather take the higher pay that I can dump into a 401k and have that grow. Pensions are not inheritable. If my wife dies before me, the pension is worthless to my kids. But they will get my 401k and IRA.

I started drawing my pension at age 55 from American because there was no penalty, and should I live to the same age of 90 that my father has, I'm going to get less money out of that than what I will get out of the 401K that I funded plus a company match.

Granted, the 401K was funded over more time, but on a Time weighted basis it's still earned more money for me than what what I will see out of the pension. I was also able to borrow money against it and pay myself back, which may be the only reason I didn't lose money in 2008.

 

[CorvetteMan]

And many of have met corporate America brainwash you about the 401k as your retirement vessel.

It was designed to be a supplement to your DBP and SS. Not your main retirement.

The inventor of the 401(k) says he created a ‘monster’

Ted Benna helped turn a little-noticed new subsection of the tax code into the least likely of household names: the 401(k).

www.marketwatch.com

 

[WeAAsles]

Nah, Kev'ss right that a pension does handcuff somebody to stay at the same place. I've got relatives that work in government jobs and they will never leave because they don't want to lose their pension.

Personally, I'd rather take the higher pay that I can dump into a 401k and have that grow. Pensions are not inheritable. If my wife dies before me, the pension is worthless to my kids. But they will get my 401k and IRA.

I started drawing my pension at age 55 from American because there was no penalty, and should I live to the same age of 90 that my father has, I'm going to get less money out of that than what I will get out of the 401K that I funded plus a company match.

Granted, the 401K was funded over more time, but on a Time weighted basis it's still earned more money for me than what what I will see out of the pension. I was also able to borrow money against it and pay myself back, which may be the only reason I didn't lose money in 2008.

And too many of you are locked into the idea of this or that, one or the other. Every good financial advisor/planner will tell you it’s best to have multiple retirement accounts.

If like mine your Pension was based on a 6.25% multiplier and like me you’re putting in 35% of your pay to your 401K yes your 401K very well could have lasted longer than your Pension. Depending on if you are drawing the same payouts from both. But that’s because you were putting more into it than what was going into your Pension.

If I still had my 6.25% Pension continuing I’d be putting 25% into my 401K instead of 35% because I’d possibly be earning less per hour than I’m earning now. Either way I’d still be diversified. BTW my original Pension estimate before it was frozen was $4000 per month when I retire. Sucks to not have that anymore.

BTW did you ever think that your relatives in Government jobs actually like working there or like the pay and benefits? I’m sure they ***** moan and complain that they don’t like working there but all people complain. It’s part of our nature.

 

[Kev3188]

...I didn’t want to “port” my butt to any other job after I got into AA..

I didn't want to "port" my butt to any other job after I got into NW either, but that's the difference between our generation and everyone coming up behind us.

And organizing is about leaving the place a little better than you found it, right? Any successful campaign will go in with that mindset.

Nah, Kev'ss right that a pension does handcuff somebody to stay at the same place. I've got relatives that work in government jobs and they will never leave because they don't want to lose their pension.

Personally, I'd rather take the higher pay that I can dump into a 401k and have that grow. Pensions are not inheritable. If my wife dies before me, the pension is worthless to my kids. But they will get my 401k and IRA.

+1
That inheritability is a huge benefit that often gets lost in these conversations.

Not only do they convince people to stay, but they can convince people to act against their best interests.

*Pay cut? Sure. Gotta save the pension!
*Outsource work? You bet. We gotta save the pension!
*Terrible medical? So be it. As long as we save the pension!

And many of have met corporate America brainwash you about the 401k as your retirement vessel.

It was designed to be a supplement to your DBP and SS. Not your main retirement.

Who said anything about it being a "main" retirement? Come to think of it, who's still stuck in the "work 30-40 years in one spot, retire to Florida, and run out the clock" model?

And let's not forget that if someone decides they want to retire to something new, some plans won't let you collect.

You, maybe more than anyone on this board, know the risk of having a DBP as a "main" vehicle.