Question On Out Of Senority Furloughs

[ONTHESTREET]

Consider these factors.

1. Current MDA agreements dissolve pilot senority. This is fact, signed off on by the MEC. And already implemented on those pilots flying there. 15 year pilots starting on first year pay.

2. MDA is operating on U's 121 certificate, but under a regional contract. Again MEC approved.

3. Current proposal by the company calls for out of senority furloughs, as needed and facilitated by ch-11.

4. Current proposal by the company calls for "other scope provisions as needed"
I read this to mean bigger airplanes at MDA.

5. Current proposal calls for aircraft reductions as needed.

6. Proposed cancelling on the MDA flowback for future furloughees.

Now the question to those who want to give the company this agreement.

What is to stop the company from furloughing all the Airbus drivers and then transferring all the busses to MDA and operating them at regional rates?

Pilots are not a problem, If the current mainline furloughees refuse the position there are plenty of RJ drivers out there that would have no problems with a Bus. All of which would be fighting over the positions since MDA pays better than 95% of the regionals in the country.

Same with mechanics.

Flight Attendants take a few weeks to train, no problem even if the current F/A furloughees don't take it.

But most important, the company rids themselves of the 20 and 30 year mainline pilots that are used to the way it was and are generally p/d at the world.

No retirement problems, Taken care of by the MEC last year.

Seems like it is a distinct possibility with what is already in place combined with what is proposed. It would only be a matter of later parking all the remaining Boeing products and 330's and voila!........Instant LCC airline without all the hassles of a mainline contract, all employees on first year regional payrates and no contract to speak of.

Seems like a wet dream for the company.

What am I missing here? No flames please, this is one of those what ifs that occured to me and I cannot find anything that would stop them if everything goes as proposed. There would most likely be a temporary shutdown somewhere in there to facilitate something that big, but it is no harder than what Independance Air (ACA) has done. And I cannot find a down side from the companies point of view. They become the low cost carrier they are looking to be and rid themselves of a lot of baggage, namely the senior employees.

 

[BoeingBoy]

ONTHESTREET,

Interesting thought, and well laid out. The only thing I can say is that (as you say) everything is already in place except scope modification. If they could completely eliminate that, nothing contractually prevents them from moving all 279 (or whatever number) airplanes to MDA. The "out of seniority furlough" would just make it easier logistically.

Of course, I still don't think the company will be around long enough to accomplish something like this. Trying it could very well insure that they won't.

Jim

 

[hp_fa]

What a horrible concenpt.

Start an airline, make lots of promises to compensate for low starting wages, make money for awhile, then start breaking or amending the promises about the future and eventually fire anyone who actually believes they have been accruing any seniority. If all else fails, reorganize or liquidate and have the same Usual Suspects start up a new and improved airline.

Did I miss anything?

 

[cavalier]

YES - You missed the fact that unlike the failed economic model called Communism we don't guarantee a person a job in the USA. Economic forces dictate the viability of jobs over time. US Airways employees don't always help their case with the general public.

Case in point. Going to SYR on Monday. Pilot announces, "We'll be just a few minutes they're loading up the last few bags". So I look out the window to my left and I see a tug operator reading USA Today. Now you and I know he was waiting for an arrival but the 4 or 5 others the plane who also noticed it remarked, "Wish I could get paid to read the newspaper" among other less than kind remarks. Same with the F/A, short flight with damn little to do, so after beverage service she plops down and reads a novel. I just wish when they do that they would take the jump seat closest to the door so the customers can't see that. Her decision prompted a remark about how "Easy" it is to a F/A.

Perception is reality and on that day the perception of "Lazy union worker" was in full bloom with no management people to blame.

[post="182976"][/post]​

Bob we will get slammed but the fact is, fact....union workers don't work as hard as their non union brother/sisters, the difference, they can get away with it, until a "U" happens and they are jobless.

But is all fairness, managements blunders made it possible and unions just helped out but being themselves.

 

[stoopidute442]

Can we vote on which pilots go first.....we could make a reality show out of it......Donald Trump could host.......USA320 You're Fired!

 

[REACC1]

oops

 

[javaboy]

what if...........

what if MDA starts its own union, makes its own scope clause, determines its own rates???

take charge, if the mainline counter parts wont help you, then help yourselves.


along time ago i sugguested the first thing that should be done was to take all the wholly owns and get them on the list, now you have seperate groups about to be played against one another. well if mainline wont do it the maybe MDA should start its own.....

 

[pitguy74]

Onthestreet states: Flight Attendants take a few weeks to train, no problem even if the current F/A furloughees don't take it. (concerning Airbus jets)

I believe that MDA's Flight Attendants are already qualified on all mainline aircraft doors. The same goes for the mainline flight attendants, they are qualified on the EMB 170's doors. They all share the same Emergency manuals.

 

[jimntx]

Consider these factors.
Pilots are not a problem, If the current mainline furloughees refuse the position there are plenty of RJ drivers out there that would have no problems with a Bus. All of which would be fighting over the positions since MDA pays better than 95% of the regionals in the country.

[post="182949"][/post]​

And, how long would it be before they were coming back at the MDA employees and saying, "We have to get our costs in line with Skywest if we are to survive. Yeah, we know that Skywest doesn't compete with us on a single route, but their pay structure is what we have to have." <_<

Paranoid! Party of one! Your table's ready.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Very plausible scenario, Onthestreet. You just need some financing which Bronner would like be happy to provide so he can save face at losing his entire original investment. And then you have Mr. Branson who wants to start a US based airline and would love to have a lot of access to the top markets in the East where US controls a big chunk of traffic.
I’d say your scenario makes a lot of sense when you combine it with a couple of ego-driven investors to whom US becomes just another cog in their “grand planâ€￾.

 

[PoorPropDriver]

And, how long would it be before they were coming back at the MDA employees and saying, "We have to get our costs in line with Skywest if we are to survive. Yeah, we know that Skywest doesn't compete with us on a single route, but their pay structure is what we have to have." <_<

Paranoid! Party of one! Your table's ready.

[post="183003"][/post]​

That's not really correct, the MDA pay rates and work rules are the American Eagle contract, not exactly industry leading in any regard. Our contract at PSA is no better. If they had Comair's contract then you would be right about being better than 95% of the regionals out there.

 

[Rob]

My sense is they are doing this in order to park all the widebodies and avoid the training expense for putting the senior guys back into the cheaper airplanes.

(Let's face the fact that Europe does not make money most of the year and US can't afford the losses until next May.)

 

[FlyOnWall]

Isnt inernational pretty much the ONLY thing that makes them any money, and something that still has no LCC competition? I cant see them getting rid of that. Domestically the airline is a mess.

 

[Rob]

Isnt inernational pretty much the ONLY thing that makes them any money...

[post="183019"][/post]​

I know the company claims that, but I'm not sure I believe it in the winter.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Rob,

"My sense is they are doing this in order to park all the widebodies and avoid the training expense for putting the senior guys back into the cheaper airplanes."

FWIW, I don't think you're too far off the mark. Whether it voluntary parked airplanes to cut cash drain (it's been said that most of the heavy maintenance on the widebodies is done over the winter) or because some planes are pulled by creditors/leasors, the result is the same.

Having had time to read through the latest company proposal, it's clear that they don't want to move everything to MDA (at least not now). Scope language isn't eliminated, only modified to allow the E-190/195 and CRJ-900 at MDA as before. Since neither of these planes are likely to show up on the property anytime soon (we can't even get the E-170's or CRJ-700's we ordered), this appears to be a "down the road" item and have nothing to do with the current situation.

FWIW, I feel that wanting out of seniority furloughs is a bad sign. As I've said before, parking a significant part of the fleet may help the cash drain in the short term (month or two) but is a recipe for failure in the longer term. Some fixed costs can't be reduced (like the ATSB loan) so there would be less ASM's to spread them over resulting in upward pressure on CASM. (It's interesting to note that just the fee to the ATSB for guaranteeing the loan amounted to over $2 million a month for the current quarter per the BK filing)

Jim