Psa And Piedmont Fa's Ready For War
- Thread starter skyguy25
- Start date
Light Years
Veteran
- Aug 27, 2002
- 2,878
- 0
LOL!
Regarding all the classes at PDT to replace attrition: I'm mildly surprised they're even able to fill classes at this point...state of the industry I guess. It's fairly obvious there is not much of a future at the company. I had been in the hiring pool since April 2002 - shortly before the cuts & BK - and had given up hope of going to work there. Last month I got an offer of a Jan class date...after some thought I turned it down...and this while flying a *Lance!* I just couldn't bring myself to board a sinking ship. Sounds like plenty of others are getting out as fast as they can.
At CCY, it's all about the Bean Counting.
If any one at PSA thinks they are getting the Jets because they have the best management, the best FA's, the best customer service, the softest landing pilots in the business, the most agreeable unions, etc, etc. Don't be so naive. You're kidding yourself.
Take a look at Mesa and Chautaqua. The reason they are getting the growth and the new equipment is the same reason PSA is. Money.
Within the USAir Group the cheapest place to put an airplane is PSA. For Pilots at least, the contract is the poorest (i.e cheapest) in terms of soft time, trip pay, retirement, etc., among all the wholly owneds.
Whether PSA workers like it or not, they are the wholly-owned Mesa of the US Air Group. Cheap with a weak pilots' union. That is why the new airplanes were always slated to go there.
That is also why there should be little fear of a PSA merger with ALG or PDT. A merged contract with the superior contractual provisions of ALG or PDT would negate the PSA reason for being.
If any one at PSA thinks they are getting the Jets because they have the best management, the best FA's, the best customer service, the softest landing pilots in the business, the most agreeable unions, etc, etc. Don't be so naive. You're kidding yourself.
Take a look at Mesa and Chautaqua. The reason they are getting the growth and the new equipment is the same reason PSA is. Money.
Within the USAir Group the cheapest place to put an airplane is PSA. For Pilots at least, the contract is the poorest (i.e cheapest) in terms of soft time, trip pay, retirement, etc., among all the wholly owneds.
Whether PSA workers like it or not, they are the wholly-owned Mesa of the US Air Group. Cheap with a weak pilots' union. That is why the new airplanes were always slated to go there.
That is also why there should be little fear of a PSA merger with ALG or PDT. A merged contract with the superior contractual provisions of ALG or PDT would negate the PSA reason for being.
I have read some posts on hear claiming that ALG and PDT have militant unions. If militant means the integrity not to sell out union brothers by defaulting on agreements? yes!! If it means having enough respect for ourselves and our profession to demand slightly more than poverty level wages? yes!! I also keep hearing from PSA people " it wasnt us, it was our mec" Yes that is true, so why is you mec still in power??? If all the pilots at PSA are so outraged this should not be. The PDT and ALG unions have tried, repeatedly to get integration with seniority lists, this goes way back. This idea has been and still is being stonwalled by the PSA MEC.
I could go on, but I cant imagine it would do any good. All the excuses sound like the justifications I used to hear from the "buy your job" folks.
This is not an attack on the PSA pilots in whole, I am just tired of the few that will not face up to the reality of what has taken place here. Our only hope is that we stick together as groups, but as time goes on, all I ever see people willing to sell out anyone for a couple of seniority numbers.
I will always hold out hope.
I could go on, but I cant imagine it would do any good. All the excuses sound like the justifications I used to hear from the "buy your job" folks.
This is not an attack on the PSA pilots in whole, I am just tired of the few that will not face up to the reality of what has taken place here. Our only hope is that we stick together as groups, but as time goes on, all I ever see people willing to sell out anyone for a couple of seniority numbers.
I will always hold out hope.
Bluestreak
Advanced
- May 20, 2003
- 184
- 0
Take it easy Skyguy. It's not a done deal yet.
If they merged all the seniority lists tomorrow that does not mean any psa guy would be on the street. Management would have fences all over the place to prevent just that. This is not because they give a rats *** about any of us, but because they dont want to pay for all the trasition training etc. This would likely last for a couple of years. Also what makes all you PSA guys think you are all below everyone at PDT and ALG??? Have you seen the combined list? Yes PDT and ALG have some long timers. but on a whole its not that many people. EXcuses Excuses Excuses whats in it for me!! This is exactly what management wants. Dont you think the right thing should enter into the picture at some point? Just for the record in the event of a merger I will be on the street. But I would vote for it as its the right thing. And guess what in a year or two (assuming U survives) we would all be the better for it.
"Whether PSA workers like it or not, they are the wholly-owned Mesa of the US Air Group."
Whatever. This is akin to a few mainline people calling WO people "scabs" as US converts more flying to express. If this thread is a real indication of the animosity between the wholly owned carriers then I doubt there will be any kind of integration. Why would US Airways Group want to combine us into a larger, more formidable workforce? Why would they want to ruin their apparent success of pitting us all against one another?
As a furloughed mainline flight attendant now flying for PSA, I will say that the PSA people are just as professional as any group out here. Maybe they're lower paid but since we all are part of the same union, who is to blame? Why does ALPA and AFA at one carrier strike a better deal than at another? Perhaps someone can provide a clear answer to that on this thread.
Having been on the receiving end of a "staple-job-wish" when US was being acquired by UA, I would never want to put anyone else in that position, AFA carrier or not. As far as I know the talks have only been regarding the flight attendant group. I know many PSA flight attendants say they've been treated like "step children" by the other two wholly owneds. (I find this odd since Jetstream was an early commuter for the original Piedmont.) They are scared of losing their blocks, thier vacations, etc. It's a valid concern. Myself, I'm for what works for the largest amount of people.
I would ask the PSA flight attendants to turn the tables and see how you would feel if we were being downsized out of existence. Remember that the "good" things happening at PSA now could have just as easily been happening at one of the other WOs.
I would ask the Piedmont and Allegheny flight attendants to do the same. How would you feel if PSA were being dissolved by US Airways Group and we were now coming over to your place with our seniority. I think it's the only fair way but everyone should recognize and respect that this is going to be a painful process for some, should it happen.
I hope all the groups remember that we are in a union and we owe it to ourselves and each other to try and preserve as many jobs as possible, even if it means we lose out personally. Unfortunately but understandably, this philosophy will not likely be embraced. We are living in more of a "me" time than the eighties could ever have hoped to be. It's definitely hard to look beyond your own life, your own mortgage, your own car payment... especially when none of us are making that much money to begin with and there is so much uncertainty in our industry and our world.
I thought combining the WOs would and should happen before I ever dreamed I would land here. Make one, big US Airways Express and ditch the contract carriers. Those folks will still find work as their execs strike deals with other airlines looking to undercut their own people. US Airways group will keep all the control and the revenue and we can feed it back into the company. Force Siegel to make good on his claim that by expanding with small jets, we can foster future expansion of the mainline. I'm suprised that talk of this "consolidation" is coming as such a shock to so many.
BTW, off the subject, you mainline jets for jobs pilots that are starting at PSA- You're already getting a reputation of having a "I can't believe I'm at this ****ing place" attitude. Well, get over it...none of us can...even some of the ones who have been here several years. Some of us had to go through the whole interview process to get here and many have been turned down. It's different here and yes, it can suck...very, very hard! But we're here for the time being so don't make it any worse than it has to be...and welcome to the madness!
Good luck everyone!
Whatever. This is akin to a few mainline people calling WO people "scabs" as US converts more flying to express. If this thread is a real indication of the animosity between the wholly owned carriers then I doubt there will be any kind of integration. Why would US Airways Group want to combine us into a larger, more formidable workforce? Why would they want to ruin their apparent success of pitting us all against one another?
As a furloughed mainline flight attendant now flying for PSA, I will say that the PSA people are just as professional as any group out here. Maybe they're lower paid but since we all are part of the same union, who is to blame? Why does ALPA and AFA at one carrier strike a better deal than at another? Perhaps someone can provide a clear answer to that on this thread.
Having been on the receiving end of a "staple-job-wish" when US was being acquired by UA, I would never want to put anyone else in that position, AFA carrier or not. As far as I know the talks have only been regarding the flight attendant group. I know many PSA flight attendants say they've been treated like "step children" by the other two wholly owneds. (I find this odd since Jetstream was an early commuter for the original Piedmont.) They are scared of losing their blocks, thier vacations, etc. It's a valid concern. Myself, I'm for what works for the largest amount of people.
I would ask the PSA flight attendants to turn the tables and see how you would feel if we were being downsized out of existence. Remember that the "good" things happening at PSA now could have just as easily been happening at one of the other WOs.
I would ask the Piedmont and Allegheny flight attendants to do the same. How would you feel if PSA were being dissolved by US Airways Group and we were now coming over to your place with our seniority. I think it's the only fair way but everyone should recognize and respect that this is going to be a painful process for some, should it happen.
I hope all the groups remember that we are in a union and we owe it to ourselves and each other to try and preserve as many jobs as possible, even if it means we lose out personally. Unfortunately but understandably, this philosophy will not likely be embraced. We are living in more of a "me" time than the eighties could ever have hoped to be. It's definitely hard to look beyond your own life, your own mortgage, your own car payment... especially when none of us are making that much money to begin with and there is so much uncertainty in our industry and our world.
I thought combining the WOs would and should happen before I ever dreamed I would land here. Make one, big US Airways Express and ditch the contract carriers. Those folks will still find work as their execs strike deals with other airlines looking to undercut their own people. US Airways group will keep all the control and the revenue and we can feed it back into the company. Force Siegel to make good on his claim that by expanding with small jets, we can foster future expansion of the mainline. I'm suprised that talk of this "consolidation" is coming as such a shock to so many.
BTW, off the subject, you mainline jets for jobs pilots that are starting at PSA- You're already getting a reputation of having a "I can't believe I'm at this ****ing place" attitude. Well, get over it...none of us can...even some of the ones who have been here several years. Some of us had to go through the whole interview process to get here and many have been turned down. It's different here and yes, it can suck...very, very hard! But we're here for the time being so don't make it any worse than it has to be...and welcome to the madness!
Good luck everyone!
Similar threads
