Psa And Piedmont Fa's Ready For War

[airlineorphan]

oldiebutgoody wrote:

I'm confused. Is PDT being merged with PSA, or just going away? If they aren't bringing something to the table, why are they entitled to anything? Who then is out on the street, the PSA junior guys? That doesn't seem fair. If it is a true merger, then some kind of date of hire with some protections for the current PSA guys might be in order. Just my take, not that anybody cares.

oldiebutgoody,

It's been my understanding that part of the Big Plan has been to consolidate the 3 wholly-owned carriers at some point. The configuration of that consolidation is unclear to me: Do 2 get liquidated and through the slippery games of corporations within corporations are the assets then sold from one subsidiary of US Airways Group to another. If equipment is shifted from one to the other (or at least cherry-picked by, say, PSA), then would that represent a merger in which seniority integration would be in the offing? I think one thing is certain, CCY will do it in the most awkward and disruptive fashion possible.

And lots of us care what you have to say, Oldie!

-Airlineorphan

 

[NCflyer]

skyguy25,

By the way,

thanks for the compassion.

The best thing that can happen to USAirways is the phasing out of PDT and Allegheny all together

Maybe you would like all of the USAirways employees to be phased out. Just you and your own left. And of course MESA still around.

 

[USFlyer]

If equipment is shifted from one to the other (or at least cherry-picked by, say, PSA), then would that represent a merger in which seniority integration would be in the offing?

Siegel has stated numerous times that US intends to get out of the turboprop business. My guess is Air Midwest and maybe 1-2 other affilliate commuter carriers will operate all turboprops within about two years. (Some cities will never support nor require an RJ.) Meanwhile, PSA will operate US Airways Group Bombardier RJs while MidAtlantic will operate Embraer 70-76 seat RJs. PDT and ALG will in all likelihood be liquidated. Neither carrier is scheduled to receive additional aircraft despite the Dash-8 leases expiring quite rapidly over the next few years.

 

[Bluestreak]

NCflyer,

You wrote that PDT has lost 30% of their pilots. I listened to the PDT pilots hotline a few weeks back and it said PDT was running a new hire pilot class. How does PDT have 30% of their pilots on furlough and run a new hire class? Did you get your facts wrong?

 

[NCflyer]

No my facts are correct.

When I stated that we had lost about 30% of our pilots, I didn't say that we had any on furlough.

Since May 2002 we have been losing about 7-10 pilots per month. All through attrition. PDT at that time had about 550 pilots on its seniority list. Currently we have about 380 pilots. If I did my math correctly that is a 31% reduction in pilots. In fact PDT has had at least 2 new hire classes this year and probably another soon after the first of the year.

Even though our "furlough" list is 0 doesn't mean we haven't felt the pain of U's bankruptcy.

 

[skyguy25]

My question is simple: why is mainlain NOT replacing any of the Dash 8's with
anything? or allowing PDT or ALG new aircraft? Why is mainline also making the decision to more then likely
allow PSA to operate their CRJ-700 as well???? And the answer "just because" is not valid. USFlyer knows whats going on...their response says it all. Anf IF and just IF UsFLyer is correct in the liquidation aspect, is it then fair for PDT and ALG to be intergrated with PSA? just curious.

 

[WOpropTrash]

My question is simple: why is mainlain NOT replacing any of the Dash 8's with
anything? or allowing PDT or ALG new aircraft? Why is mainline also making the decision to more then likely
allow PSA to operate their CRJ-700 as well???? And the answer "just because" is not valid. USFlyer knows whats going on...their response says it all. Anf IF and just IF UsFLyer is correct in the liquidation aspect, is it then fair for PDT and ALG to be intergrated with PSA? just curious.

Isn't it obvious? You're only one half click above MESA, if that. You're the cheapest! The other WO's apparently weren't willing to stoop that low. Your group caved in, and lowered the bar for everyone.

You're right. It's all about you! Good luck.

 

[NAPAUS]

Whats is this all about? Aren't PSA and PI both AFA carriers? If the answer is yes, than its quite simple. AFA bylaws (much to the dismay of UAL"s Fa/s) is clear and unambigious. DATE OF HIRE. PERIOD! No room for discussion. Whys are u poeple rambling about senority...Know ur contract and please stop complaining. In an environment where people are loosing their jobs, pensions and homes - be grateful for what u have. Come now kids....Get a little more real!!

 

[passed_over]

The PSA pilot group rejected there original TA but there MEC ratified it. They sold there pilot group down the road and now I believe they fly the RJ's for less then MESA and Pinnacle rates. Shame on them. They got the RJ's because they were willing to sell there souls. Its unfortunate that Airways willnolt use its greatest assetts the WO's and continues to give MESA an operating profit fit for a King

 

[NCflyer]

passed over,

That along with the fact that their fleet size is to double leads me to believe that there was some sort of back room dealing going on.

Let's review:

The PSA pilot group rejects the original TA.

The PSA MEC ratifies it including the J4J protocols in a closed meeting.

When the agreement includes the provision that 50% of any jet seats have to go to the U pilots, the announcement is made (prior to having all their employees in agreement) that PSA is to take delivery of RJs and will be doubling their fleet size. Thereby no PSA pilot should lose his/her position by way of the J4J arrangement.

Very suspicious?

We at PDT have heard through unofficial channels that it didn't matter what PDT or ALG did the decision had already been made that PSA was the WO who would receive RJs.

 

[Bluestreak]

NCFlyer,

Part of the reason PSA is getting jets before PDT and ALG is because PSA management was better prepared than the other two wholly owneds. When mainline first approached the three management teams, PSA was the only wholly owned to already have a business plan in place for aquiring jets. PSA already had a deal worked out with the city of Dayton to build a training center (for almost no cost to the company) at the Dayton Airport Inn in the event we would get jets. Also, PSA had negotiated great lease agreements with Canton and Dayton for our maintenance hangers. On top of that, PSA management had already located two used CRJ simulators that PSA could aquire on the cheap in the event PSA was to get RJs. When mainline management met with the three wholly owned managements, PSA came in with a low cost business plan that had all the details worked out. ALG and PDT management had nothing, no business plan, no idea how they ould implement the RJs. PSA already had all the costs forcast and had already worked out almost unbeatable deals for training and maintanence facilities.

PSA did not have all its contracts signed at the time the RJ order was announced. That wasn't such a big deal. The only contract not signed then and still not signed now is with the Ramp agents and gate agents who I think are represented by the CWA. That contract has been in negotiation for almost three years. Negotiations started, I think, before september 11. It is a PSA managent strategey to drag out contract negotiations as long as possible. The ramp workers are going to get a raise when they sign their contract. Why would management want them to have a new contract when they can continue to have them work for the lower wages of theor corrent contract. They did the same thing with the pilots. Our contract was negotiated for three years. Management didn't want to sign anything until the economy was in deep recession and ALPA had the least leverage.

Why is PSA getting jets instead of PDT and ALG? I think it is partly because we have the most tractable unions and the best management team of the three wholy owneds. Siegel wants these RJs put into service as fast as possible. US Airways does not have time to argue with the militant unions at AGC and PDT.

 

[skyguy25]

Bluestreak,

Excellent synopsis, and very factual.

DAY and CAK sealed the deal. $1.oo at CAK for the hanger. Where else can you find that- or beat it. DAY and CAK is giving everything away to PSA. Good Ole Ohio!

 

[FM2436]

Didn't US Airways also option 160 ERJ-145's. Weren't the CRJ200s and 700s a first phase implementation of RJ's? Rumor has it that when a second order is placed for optioned RJs, is when PDT and ALG come into the picture.

 

[PoorPropDriver]

Group has never signed any orders/options for the EMB-145 only the 170/175. Incidentally, the rumor mill recently has MDA not starting up and Group placing the big Embraer aircraft at mainline.

 

[PITbull]

Ummmm, it's not up to the LEC presidents. It's in the AFA constitution. Mergers of AFA represented carriers mean seniority integration by Date Of Hire.

It's there for a reason.

To protect seniority rights from management games. To make it harder for management to pit us against each other.

We are all in this together. If you are only in it for yourself, then I'm not sure I'd want to entrust my safety to you on an a/c.

Solidarity is the only way,
-Airlineorphan

Airlineorphan,

Again, you are correct!

The AFA consitution dicatates.

When it happens, and I say when, it will be dictated by slotting in seniority. There will always be those who are disadvantaged no matter what way you would do it, therefore, the Constitution will prevail as the way it has always been done with AFA carriers.

Can't wait for you to come to MDA and run for some union election there. You need to be in union work.


Folks,

As an aside, the first w/0 to sign their contracts would be the surviving w/o iwhich was alledged by management was nothing short of "brain washing fluid and nothing short of major bullshit.

Use your heads.