Profit Sharing will shut airline if this happens!

[delldude]

Just remember - including the West employees isn't costing the company a single dime. That money comes directly from the pockets of the East employee.

Just remember we all made this profit didn't we!! so it seems your taking money from us! if you want to put it your way. and as me being against the IAM,I and the rest of our techs on the west still want nothing to do with the IAM and it is even stronger after weve seen how they handle things. the best thing that can happe is this Delta stuff goes thru and the non union workforce gives them the boot! thats what the company wants!

Dream on dude....

 

[700AW]

Guess you cant answer the questions, just try to deflect and attack.

Why do westies feel entilted to something that you did not sacrifice nor negotiate to be part of?

you have finally seen things our way now. we did not negotiate the merger, we have our cba which was/is fine for us,we have 10 full paid sick days, 401k with matching, more vacation, more paid holidays etc.. you are right we did not negotiate to lose this because we are about to lose alot just b/c of the merger. since the merger the 2 airlines have together posted some profit, why shouldn't we get any of it, if you want to combine the sides and start healing the divide one has to start somewhere.
would the IAM be open to offer what we want in the cba to an open vote to the rank and file... i know the bk contract can not be changed, but can it be forced on by the company and the iam

 

[MMB]

... Just remember we all made this profit didn't we!! so it seems your taking money from us! if you want to put it your way. and as me being against the IAM, I and the rest of our techs on the west still want nothing to do with the IAM and it is even stronger after weve seen how they handle things...

Please excuse the intrusion, as this is clearly not my fight. However, I am curious about your inner workings, as I may soon find myself forced to become a part of them.
If I were to apply some of the arguments posed on the Delta board about why Delta employees should embrace an AW/US/DL merger, shouldn’t west be MORE interested in joining the IAM, seeing how well they have taken care of the east?

Go ahead, I’m ready. I’ll even start it off for you:
You’re right, this isn’t your fight! So ____.

 

[700UW]

You should get from the West's part of the profit from the company's general treasury, not from the wallets of the East Employees who have given up way more then anyone at HP.

I don't know how you all can have the gall to want to take money out of the East employees who have suffered from the concessions and you have taken no part in the pain from the Chapter 11 case.

 

[700AW]

Then I guess your ibt should have negotiated it, which they did not. you have said before, it takes to to negotiate, we asked for it but the company was not keen on it

Not the IAM's fault the ibt could not negotiate profit sharing or a raise while you were in section 6. are you refering to the sec 6 that was stopped due to the merger, the one that the company new at least a year or more in advance that they would try buying into US

Bottom line is you did not take concessions in the US East Chapter 11 case, not one penny, yet you want to take money from people who fully participated and some even gave 100% of their earnings. correct, not on the east cba, but if we get put fully under the east cba and lose anything that we have now, would'nt that be losing under the east cba???

There is no way you can justify taking money from East employees.the comapny takes and the union takes money,

And the last time I checked the earnings report East earned way more profit west. And nothing is stopping Doug from giving you profit sharing from the general treasury and not out of an East Employee's Wallet, now is there?

And as Jim said, you earn more vacation, a little bit more in pay and full sick time, how about you giving that up to the East employees?

 

[delldude]

Yall help us po' westies to sum yall's hard earned cash??

 

[BoeingBoy]

If someone could provide the profit sharing language in the east CBA, it would make this issue easier to discuss.

Even better would be for you to show us your contract language providing for profit sharing.

So YES we deserve a share in the results of this effort.

All employees deserve many things - better pay, lower cost medical, retirement medical, etc. That's beside the point - you will only get what you negotiate. So as I said to AIRWOMAN, tell us what you negotiated. If that doesn't match what you feel you deserve, it's an issue to discuss with Doug in negotiations.

It is the IAM that deceided the west's fate on this issue and I for one will find the results of thier action quite entertaining.

This is what's fascinating....

As I said before, a West 737 pilot makes more than an East 737 pilot. The East pilot could certainly feel that he/she deserves equal pay. Should ALPA take money from the West pilot and give it to the East pilot so they both get the same pay? That's what you seem to be suggesting.

As I understand it, a 20 year West F/A gets more vacation than a 20 year East F/A. Should AFA take some vacation from the West F/A and give it to the East F/A? Again, what you seem to be suggesting.

In short, what you are suggesting - demanding, really - is that the various unions embrace and enforce Doug's "cost neutral" concept. Take from the employee that negotiated more and give it to the employee that negotiated less.

I just can't see what's wrong with holding Doug accountable. He's the one that said "all" employees would get profit sharing, isn't he. Not the IAM, not ALPA, not AFA - Doug. He certainly has the power to put up the dollars to back his words. Where's the anger at him for not keeping his word?

But, no - it's so much easier to play Doug's little game. Blame the union for not giving you money from a fellow employee's pocket. Blame that other employee for not wanting to take money from their pocket to hand to you. While Doug laughs on the way to the bank.

Jim

 

[700UW]

Jim,

Another excellent post!

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

I haven't read all the posts in this topic but I have a questions. These questions are just to set get the FACTS and not me stating any position in matter.

1. What exactly is the language for the profitsharing?
2. Can we assume the language is same in all CBA's?

There is a set percentage set aside we all know.

3. Is the profit sharing only in East CBA's?
4. In the CBA's does the language specifically say East non union groups will be included in the percentage being set aside?
5. If #4 above is yes would that include AWA non union employees?
6. If #5 above is no is the company including them anyway?
7. If #6 above is yes should the unions be filing grievances and or lawsuits to protect their members shared amounts and to force the company to create a second profit sharing pot out of their own pockets?

Is it possible the company is playing the union groups against each other to keep from having to ante up?

Without answers yet to my questions here is what I would like to see happen to maximize everyones paycheck. The current profit sharing plan for East stays with East. Then the company sets up a separate plan for West using a ratio of West employees to East employees to determine the percent to set aside. Then that is distributed to West employees the same as the East's is being distributed.

By the way what I like and what I get are never the same at least in respect to... well you know.

 

[700UW]

I will answer what I know:

I all ready posted the language as an attached file.

The language is the same in all the EAST CBAs.

Yes the language is only contained in the East CBAs.

Each East CBA is union specific, no mention of non-union in the IAM CBA.

Of course the company is playing west against east, that is quite obvious.

 

[BoeingBoy]

It's really simple and boils down to this. Profit sharing is a negotiated benefit, negotiated between the East unions and US long before the merger entered the picture - BK1.

It has nothing to do with what anyone feels they deserve, who gave up the most, who makes more or less, who has better or worse benefits, etc. It is a negotiated provision of the East contracts, pure and simple. No different than pay rates, vacation, sick provisions, medical, etc.

When the 2Q profit materialized, the company made a big deal about "every employee" below a certain level participating in the profit sharing. As a negotiated item in the East contracts, Doug didn't have the right or authority to make a unilateral change like that in the East contracts.

He could have put up the additional money necessary to provide the same benefit for the West employees - that was completely within his power to do - but he didn't do that. Instead he set up a situation where the East unions and employees would be seen as the evil, greedy ones if they didn't give up part of a negotiated benefit so that the West folks could get a benefit that they had not negotiated. Judging by this thread, he succeeded.

To use the example I've used repeatedly, if Doug announced that pilots flying the same equipment would get the same pay but then did nothing to provide that, who should I be mad at? The West 737 pilot that doesn't want to take a pay cut so that an East 737 pilot could get a raise, or Doug for promising something then failing to deliver?

Jim

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

As a negotiated item in the East contracts, Doug didn't have the right or authority to make a unilateral change like that in the East contracts.

So back to this question is Doug sharing a portion of the unions money with East's and/or West's non union workforce and if they are what are the unions going to do about it?

 

[700UW]

Each union and non-union work group has an alloted %, no one is getting a share of anyother work group's share of the profits.

Go back and read the langauge I posted as a PDF file.

There is nothing for the unions do anything about.

Why are you trying to turn this against the unions and why have you not read the language?

 

[usjacket]

Dog.....we gave up tons of bennies/wages/jobs and work rules and for a return on that,it was agreed that US Airways employees who gave would see a return on their investment/concessions.
AWA is a freeloader in this case...
The people who earned that profit sharing were and are US Airways....freeloaders don't need to apply.

WE GAVE AT THE OFFICE

DellDude, I stand corrected!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Here's a suggestion: Everybody get their W-2's together for the last five years and compare. It's pretty obvious where the profit sharing should go. You want profit sharing negotiate it. Don't hate the Easties because they did. Then again even with profit sharing they are far, far, far away from what they used to make. Sorry, Westies, you have "Doogie" to blame -- he bought US Airways warts/profit sharing and all.

Later,
Eye