Profit Sharing will shut airline if this happens!

[BoeingBoy]

What the unions should do in combined contract negotiations is insist on what ALPA (and I assume the other East unions) negotiated - 10% of profits up to a 5% profit margin, then 25% of profits above a 5% profit margin. That would provide the bigger pool of money needed to include everyone without taking from Peter to give to Paul.

You're right, though, PITbull. The unions, except for the IAM, walked right into Doug's "cost neutral" trap. Dougie boy promised, and for all but the IAM so far, delivered profit sharing to everyone without incurring any extra cost.

Jim

 

[PITbull]

What the unions should do in combined contract negotiations is insist on what ALPA (and I assume the other East unions) negotiated - 10% of profits up to a 5% profit margin, then 25% of profits above a 5% profit margin. That would provide the bigger pool of money needed to include everyone without taking from Peter to give to Paul.

You're right, though, PITbull. The unions, except for the IAM, walked right into Doug's "cost neutral" trap. Dougie boy promised, and for all but the IAM so far, delivered profit sharing to everyone without incurring any extra cost.

Jim

Not only was the AFA MEC misquided by the newly voted in MEC Pres Mike, but worse, the MEC Pres never put that part out on the MEC E-line..nowhere was it written how a vote came about and that the East concession provision for profit sharing was given to the West. Flight attendants know about this through aviation. The MEC Pres said he would put it out a few months ago when I wrote him a scathing note, but as of late, no info on it.

I am sure when and IF there is a end of year net profit, he'll come out and wash it out with some lame comment about the profit sharing, but I doubt he will mention how the MEC came about a vote last January to leave the company off the hook, and share the East contract provision with the West f/as.

One MEC member gave me some excuse that even with a $300 million profit pull and 10% being about $30 million, with f/as part being 14.5% of that, that adding 3,000 more f/as to the appox. 4,600 from the East meant the difference of about $100 bucks less for each East f/a, and it was a non-issue.

Really? How'd he come up with that when its driven by W-2.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The East MEC was a little better - the transition agreement contained the language that includes all pilots in the profit sharing. They didn't publicize it, and it wasn't put out for a vote, but it was there for all to read.

Like I said earlier, I didn't disagree with including the West pilots because 1 - Doug wasn't about to put up the money to include them, and 2 - not including them would just give Doug an opportunity to make the East pilots the bad guys (as they're doing with the IAM, apparently).

Given those two points, giving up something over 1/3 of any potential profit sharing check was a relatively small price to pay.

Jim

 

[PITbull]

The East MEC was a little better - the transition agreement contained the language that includes all pilots in the profit sharing. They didn't publicize it, and it wasn't put out for a vote, but it was there for all to read.

Like I said earlier, I didn't disagree with including the West pilots because 1 - Doug wasn't about to put up the money to include them, and 2 - not including them would just give Doug an opportunity to make the East pilots the bad guys (as they're doing with the IAM, apparently).

Given those two points, giving up something over 1/3 of any potential profit sharing check was a relatively small price to pay.

Jim

Well, Jim, that's why you are so very well liked, by all, for heart, good nature, and well balanced position.

Not me. I wouldn't have budged, and would rather have pressured the West MEC to expose the company for the disrespect they show their west employees "in print". Time and time again, the union members feel compelled to provide, and this company knows this weakness and wedge, and will continue to use it and pit one against the other at every turn...cost neutral, indeed.

Its the responsibility of the West MECs and union leadership to communicate this egregousness placing guilt on labor to provide for those who are not covered by these CBA language. Management should incentivise their employees on the west, or increase the profit sharing pool. Yet, they don't...it's easier to hammer each other with divisive threates and taking down the union.

Total illness.

 

[700UW]

Airwoman,

Please show me any sacrifice the HP employees have taken under the IAM CBA which saved the company from extinction.

And yes 50% of the employees were laid-off, I was on the Negotiating Committee, funny did not see any HP employees from the IBT making the sacrifices the IAM East employees did in the last chapter 11 case.

Why should an employee who did not participate in the concessions profit from the CBA language that you are NOT covered under?

And to Jim, EXCELLENT POST!

 

[a320av8r]

Airwoman,

Please show me any sacrifice the HP employees have taken under the IAM CBA which saved the company from extinction.

And yes 50% of the employees were laid-off, I was on the Negotiating Committee, funny did not see any HP employees from the IBT making the sacrifices the IAM East employees did in the last chapter 11 case.

Why should an employee who did not participate in the concessions profit from the CBA language that you are NOT covered under?

And to Jim, EXCELLENT POST!

I am glad to see the west employees step up to the plate and offer to share their yearly pay raise with the east employees. No? :blink:

 

[AIRWOMAN]

Airwoman,

Please show me any sacrifice the HP employees have taken under the IAM CBA which saved the company from extinction.
There aren't any....are the HP employees covered right now? It appears that they are not, not totally. Ask the new members that were brought into the union. They're in a black hole and being snubbed by the company and the union, depending on who benefits most.....and it's not the members/employees. And honestly, if it wasn't for the merger, according to DP, neither company alone would be as strong and the merged company. Do you agree with that?
And yes 50% of the employees were laid-off, I was on the Negotiating Committee, funny did not see any HP employees from the IBT making the sacrifices the IAM East employees did in the last chapter 11 case.
Are you referring to the last USA Chapter 11 case or the AWA Chapter 11? If it's the former, of course not. There was no involvement between the 2 companies at that time. Sacrifices are recognized without a doubt. And they should be recognized, pre merger, throughout this new company........both sides have a past.
Why should an employee who did not participate in the concessions profit from the CBA language that you are NOT covered under?
Please provide the CBA language you refer to. It would make the discussion easier.
And to Jim, EXCELLENT POST!

Agreed, excellent post by Jim.

There are always 2 sides to every story. Each side, each individual has their opinions and perspectives and their personal experiences in this. Both sides have given over the years......as all aviation professionals have.

If someone could provide the profit sharing language in the east CBA, it would make this issue easier to discuss.

 

[700UW]

What is there to clear up?

You did not participate in the US Airways Bankruptcy case, you are not covered under the CBA, you did not give concessions in the Chapter 11 case, plain and simple.

Why should employees who have not participated take money out of the wallets from employees who have?

Attached is a pdf of the language.

 

[Awa Contract]

As the IAM continues to show thier true colors -- one of the things we have to remember is that ole Al has to be enjoying this cheap shot

 

[700UW]

True colors?

Guess we could say the West employees is GREEN!

How does it feel to want to take money from people that sacrificed in chapter 11 and including ones that lost their jobs, yet you want to take thier money when you gave up no concessions in the case and you did not even want to be part of the IAM nor work under the CBA which you don't anyhow.

 

[Awa Contract]

BOTH sides have made sacrifices - but you don't see that in your non-airline job now do you - The IAM could have handled this diferently, but chose not to, so now the division between east and west runs even deeper. The Company could have handled this differently but they deceided to use this to further resentment towards the IAM.

The IAM has only shown us that we are to be treated like the RED-Headed Stepchild. Which is just what some of us told everyone to expect from them. So, yes thier true colors are showing, but hey look at the good side of it. This just makes it easier to get those cards signed on the west side.

You may know the CBA - but you are not one of us - Just a pain in our A**.

 

[700UW]

Guess you cant answer the questions, just try to deflect and attack.

Why do westies feel entilted to something that you did not sacrifice nor negotiate to be part of?

 

[Awa Contract]

The Facts that get in your way is that we have not seen a pay or cost of living increase in over three years while the cost of our benefits has increased yearly and in some cases doubled in one year. Not to mention the personel losses and increased work loads. And YES we have been a vital part of making this company profitable unlike outsiders like you. So YES we deserve a share in the results of this effort.

It is the IAM that deceided the west's fate on this issue and I for one will find the results of thier action quite entertaining. At that time we may find enough Preparation H to rid ourselves of you.

 

[700UW]

Then I guess your ibt should have negotiated it, which they did not.

Not the IAM's fault the ibt could not negotiate profit sharing or a raise while you were in section 6.

Bottom line is you did not take concessions in the US East Chapter 11 case, not one penny, yet you want to take money from people who fully participated and some even gave 100% of their earnings.

There is no way you can justify taking money from East employees.

And the last time I checked the earnings report East earned way more profit west. And nothing is stopping Doug from giving you profit sharing from the general treasury and not out of an East Employee's Wallet, now is there?

And as Jim said, you earn more vacation, a little bit more in pay and full sick time, how about you giving that up to the East employees?

 

[delldude]

Speaking from a East point of view this member thinks that profit sharing should be shared with west employees!

Dog.....we gave up tons of bennies/wages/jobs and work rules and for a return on that,it was agreed that US Airways employees who gave would see a return on their investment/concessions.
AWA is a freeloader in this case...

Hey 700, just remember this and you can let Frank and the rest of the clowns you work with know, That if it wasn't for the AWA people and Parker they would not of had profit sharing to share an they would be in the unemployment lines. and for your comments about all they gave up! we never made the kind of money you guys made so we always have been living in this lower wage world that you guys are just starting to enjoy!!!!!

The last time I checked we are all US Airways and ALL the people at US AIRWAYS should get the rewards of making this airline go!!!!

The people who earned that profit sharing were and are US Airways....freeloaders don't need to apply.

WE GAVE AT THE OFFICE