Priority 1 rid ourselves of the TWU

[Dan Cunningham]

The twu and aa have again collaborated to "Lead Us" to the bottom of pay and benefits in the industry for M&R workers. Why is it that aa/twu represented fleet service clerks are #1 in the industry?, even in comparison to SWA. By the way twu represents SWA fleet service. On another note, twu helped the ibteamsters with organizing the fleet service clerks at Continental airlines because they couldn't get the job done. Good job Chicken "BagSmashin JIm" LIttle. What a LEADER!!! ole Chicken little is.

Anyone thinkin about signing a ibteamster card should look long and hard at Continental AMTs. Why don't they make $50 an hour like the ibteamsters at UPS? Don't tell me it is because Continental does all their work in house because they haven't since the two Lorenzo initiated bankruptcies. Why have the teamsters failed the Continental AMTS?

On one final note I am relieved to know that the twu/aa personnel hiding behind aliases while attempting to discredit anyone posting on this website by name against the company's favorite Back Door Whore is laughable and more than modestly disingenuous. Company/twu lackies subscribing to the belief that now, more than ever before, they must hide their true identities and become nameless beings accepting that total anonymity is the only way to go, excepting for maybe as a twu/company bootlickin, cowardly stooge! Thats what Leadership and twu unionism is all about, being a cowardly nameless stooge!

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

That is an understatement. IMHO, posting under my name has probably cost me some pretty lucrative jobs.
In today's world, every social media entity (forums, Facebook, my space, etc...) is data mined and any and "every" post you have ever made is right there in HR when your looking for a job.
Be aware JMHO,
B) xUT

That is very true xUT. I have been in hiring situations and done background checks on people who had great qualifications for the job. Then the hiring team (me and 2 others) look around on Internet sites and find someone who is yelling and posting all kinds of anti-company rhetoric (does not matter if it is true or not) aimed at their current employer.

That is not someone who will get an interview. We do not want someone who is going to go out and blast the organization that pays them. It is that simple.

It is a very competitive market out there. One needs an edge to move through the hiring process. Using your real name on internet sites is not very smart. As a hiring authority, what it shows me is ignorance. It shows me that you may be a security risk. Calling someone a coward because they are smart enough to remain anonymous on the web, is yet one more indicator of a flaw in character.

I fully expect some here to blast me and label me as a coward that hides behind an alias. So be it.

 

[TWU informer]

That is very true xUT. I have been in hiring situations and done background checks on people who had great qualifications for the job. Then the hiring team (me and 2 others) look around on Internet sites and find someone who is yelling and posting all kinds of anti-company rhetoric (does not matter if it is true or not) aimed at their current employer.

That is not someone who will get an interview. We do not want someone who is going to go out and blast the organization that pays them. It is that simple.

It is a very competitive market out there. One needs an edge to move through the hiring process. Using your real name on internet sites is not very smart. As a hiring authority, what it shows me is ignorance. It shows me that you may be a security risk. Calling someone a coward because they are smart enough to remain anonymous on the web, is yet one more indicator of a flaw in character.

I fully expect some here to blast me and label me as a coward that hides behind an alias. So be it.

I would not classifiy you as a coward. I believe you speak the truth.

But where should the line be drawn that a man cannot speak his mind due to FEAR of future revenge?

If every company is made up of yes men that will not speak their minds about problems, then that company will fail.
I view my current middle and lower management this way now. It is not that these men and women do not have opinions, it that the Institutional Political system makes it wrong to to take a stand. Hence, we suffer from lack of problem solving and instead labor gets pay and benefit cuts to keep funding the dysfunctional management.

Every company has to have a certain number of folks, that will speak up and object to what is wrong. And if the problems are being solved within the company then it is less likely the dirty laundry will spill over into the internet. If the problems are not solved within, then of course they become puiblic domain.

The problems we see being expressed here are perfect examples of the symptoms of failing management to correct internal issues. In other words the internet becomes the place to talk about symptoms of the problem, not the actual problem.

 

[AC Tynker]

Unity for what, the next round of concessions? We dont need unity for that.

So what do we need unity for? To help AA "Take on United and Delta'? So we can drag their wages down to ours and all the executives at all these airlines can get even bigger paychecks?

You need unity to fight the company, not to lick their boots and just because you are willing to do it dont tell us that we need to all do it.

If you ever decide to fight. let us know, then we can talk about unity.

I don't claim to know it all as yourself and Chuck do, but I think I do know that in the times we live in the time to "fight" isn't in bankruptcy when the cards are stacked in the companies favor. If you think that We can do anything about Executive paychecks you are more delusional that I first thought. What is it that makes you think you are a Unity expert anyway ? The only Unity I have read about you exercising with flaws is within your own local and your within your "Cornerstone" faction. Your theory that Line is above Overhaul has been a big part of the destruction of Unity. We as Overhaul can go do your job with a learning curve and the line can come and do ours with a learning curve so neither entity is above the other we are one of the same and once you realize that, which I have my doubts then and only then could we act as a Unified group. I also feel that you might be the wrong face to associate with trying to bring everyone together anyway with your exceptional abilities to do your FlipFlop routine. I suspect all of you initial Advocates of holding your ground and fighting the company would be singing a different tune if you were in the group that were going to be unemployed such as during abrogation. I also suspect that yourself and others that are in the big commerce and travel cities figure if you hold out until the 11 turns to a 7 then the other carriers will expand to make up for the empty hole in the Industry so either way it is a win win for you.

A lot of what I typed is my Opinion mixed with a lot of Truth.

 

[TWU informer]

I don't claim to know it all as yourself and Chuck do, but I think I do know that in the times we live in the time to "fight" isn't in bankruptcy when the cards are stacked in the companies favor. What is it that makes you think you are a Unity expert anyway ? The only Unity I have seen you exercise with flaws is within your own local and your within your "Cornerstone" faction. Your theory that Line is above Overhaul has been a big part of the destruction of Unity. We as Overhaul can go do your job with a learning curve and the line can come and do ours with a learning curve so neither entity is above the other we are one of the same and once you realize that, which I have my doubts then and only then could we act as a Unified group. I also feel that you might be the wrong face to associate with trying to bring everyone together anyway with your exceptional abilities to do your FlipFlop routine. I suspect all of you initial Advocates of holding your ground and fighting the company would be singing a different tune if you were in the group that were going to be unemployed such as during abrogation. I also suspect that yourself and others that are in the big commerce and travel cities figure if you hold out until the 11 turns to a 7 then the other carriers will expand to make up for the empty hole in the Industry so either way it is a win win for you.

A lot of what I typed is my Opinion mixed with a lot of Truth.

I tend to agree with the current time to fight diatribe you opine here, but the real problem is the TWU doesn't "fight" even in good economic times and/or non threatining time. With the TWU there is always some reason not to fight and every negotiations is zero gain and instead is quasi form of quid pro quo. Only we always give more than we gain.

In my opinion, the "fight" that needs to be wagered is not just AA AMT's and TWU, not just AA Unionized Employee, not just Airline Industry Employees, not just from Union employees in general. The "Fight" needs to come from the masses within the middle class.

We are just here making arguements about the symptoms of the problem, and none of the solutions talked about here are the magic bullet to correct the problem causing those symptoms.

Does not change the fact though, that AA Mechanic and Related will be much better off in a craft union instead of an industrial union. That is as long as you are skilled or willing to make the effort to become skilled. If you are unskilled, and unwilling to become skilled, I can understand the love for industrial unionism. I cant afford to carry those that are unskilled and unwilling to become skilled any longer. Craft Unionism is for me.

 

[AC Tynker]

I tend to agree with the current time to fight diatribe you opine here, but the real problem is the TWU doesn't "fight" even in good economic times and/or non threatining time. With the TWU there is always some reason not to fight and every negotiations is zero gain and instead is quasi form of quid pro quo. Only we always give more than we gain.

In my opinion, the "fight" that needs to be wagered is not just AA AMT's and TWU, not just AA Unionized Employee, not just Airline Industry Employees, not just from Union employees in general. The "Fight" needs to come from the masses within the middle class.

We are just here making arguments about the symptoms of the problem, and none of the solutions talked about here are the magic bullet to correct the problem causing those symptoms.

Does not change the fact though, that AA Mechanic and Related will be much better off in a craft union instead of an industrial union. That is as long as you are skilled or willing to make the effort to become skilled. If you are unskilled, and unwilling to become skilled, I can understand the love for industrial unionism. I cant afford to carry those that are unskilled and unwilling to become skilled any longer. Craft Unionism is for me.

That part I agree with you 100%

The rest I do see your point and agree and disagree with different parts and at different levels. One thing that really is a downer is the Dept. of Labor saying that we are Semi-Skilled now or so I have heard, have not taken the time to go read myself yet.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

I don't claim to know it all as yourself and Chuck do, but I think I do know that in the times we live in the time to "fight" isn't in bankruptcy when the cards are stacked in the companies favor. If you think that We can do anything about Executive paychecks you are more delusional that I first thought. What is it that makes you think you are a Unity expert anyway ? The only Unity I have read about you exercising with flaws is within your own local and your within your "Cornerstone" faction. Your theory that Line is above Overhaul has been a big part of the destruction of Unity. We as Overhaul can go do your job with a learning curve and the line can come and do ours with a learning curve so neither entity is above the other we are one of the same and once you realize that, which I have my doubts then and only then could we act as a Unified group. I also feel that you might be the wrong face to associate with trying to bring everyone together anyway with your exceptional abilities to do your FlipFlop routine. I suspect all of you initial Advocates of holding your ground and fighting the company would be singing a different tune if you were in the group that were going to be unemployed such as during abrogation. I also suspect that yourself and others that are in the big commerce and travel cities figure if you hold out until the 11 turns to a 7 then the other carriers will expand to make up for the empty hole in the Industry so either way it is a win win for you.

A lot of what I typed is my Opinion mixed with a lot of Truth.

I have never read any posts where Bob said Line AMTs were above O/H AMTs but what he has said is that concessions should never be given for jobs..And I agree! As far as the destruction of unity the TWU has done that very well with the disparity in benefits within its own "union" and keeping certain groups at or above industry standard while keeping others below..

 

[TWU informer]

That part I agree with you 100%

The rest I do see your point and agree and disagree with different parts and at different levels. One thing that really is a downer is the Dept. of Labor saying that we are Semi-Skilled now or so I have heard, have not taken the time to go read myself yet.

I have not looked it up either, and could care less what the "problem" has to say.
I am willing work on that issue in time, but first things first.
I know I would rather work directly on that issue with elected officials than make yard signs behind the Local 514 hall and pretned that represents your and mine interest.

 

[TWU informer]

I have never read any posts where Bob said Line AMTs were above O/H AMTs but what he has said is that concessions should never be given for jobs..And I agree! As far as the destruction of unity the TWU has done that very well with the disparity in benefits within its own "union" and keeping certain groups at or above industry standard while keeping others below..

This is true. The market is the problem and my enemy, not the line AMT.

It is my belief that if we did not spend every dime we have on Democrats, we could use a P.R. Firm to change public perception and the DOL perception of our jobs.

But we must first become a professional group that is productive instead of concessions for jobs and unproductive because we dont have the work to remain productive and worthwhile because we always too many heads in exchange for the concessions, and disliked by the public and one complete politcal party. Let's work on this first and then move forward from there. These are all self defeating issues that must be address first.

 

[DNTULSA]

Not an excuse but a Reality. You really should stick to your subjects you have knowledge in rather than shower others with your Total Ignorance of the general internet. It seems as though you can somewhat hold your own in a conversation about union related subjects but when it comes to trying to guide someone thru the DO's and DON'Ts of having an internet experience while still maintaining Cyber Security you evidently are clueless. I have a side business as do you or so I have read. Mine is working on and building PCs & Linux machines. I repair boxs & laptops daily that someone such as yourself has displayed their poor judgment on the net thinking like you evidently do. What you consider is being honorable and having courage on the net is in one of the most Idiotic and Irresponsible decisions one can make in the environment in which we are interacting. Most importantly having Credibility with you or the other two inept and/or incompetent internet gurus that constantly hound others about aliases is really low on my list of priorities.

For you to tell me I need to use my real name on the net instead of an alias equates to me telling you that during your marital counseling sessions you need to elbow an irritable husband in the mouth to get control of the situation. In both situations we have shown our Ignorance and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that we should stick to what we know and save ourselves the embarrassment of looking like an idiot. Comparing being a Union and using an Alias is quite a stretch and a bad comparison.

I was a leader as in a NCO in an Infantry Unit so don't preach anything to me about leadership. If you really want to be a good one right now you will do as I used to do bad situations when it seemed there was no light at the end. You and Bob and the rest of the systemwide leadership will suck it up. Adapt and Overcome and quit all your finger pointing, whining and griping and realize It is what It is and you guys as in Leadership are who the Membership looks to and consider if you idiots can't keep your composure and be strong and collected even when it seems hopeless how do you expect them to. All the pathetic name calling and pointing of blame really should subside because it will fix nothing and defiantly kill any chance of Unity.

tynker,

I'll say it again; you sure sound a lot like raptorman.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I tend to agree with the current time to fight diatribe you opine here, but the real problem is the TWU doesn't "fight" even in good economic times and/or non threatining time. With the TWU there is always some reason not to fight and every negotiations is zero gain and instead is quasi form of quid pro quo. Only we always give more than we gain.

In my opinion, the "fight" that needs to be wagered is not just AA AMT's and TWU, not just AA Unionized Employee, not just Airline Industry Employees, not just from Union employees in general. The "Fight" needs to come from the masses within the middle class.

We are just here making arguements about the symptoms of the problem, and none of the solutions talked about here are the magic bullet to correct the problem causing those symptoms.

Does not change the fact though, that AA Mechanic and Related will be much better off in a craft union instead of an industrial union. That is as long as you are skilled or willing to make the effort to become skilled. If you are unskilled, and unwilling to become skilled, I can understand the love for industrial unionism. I cant afford to carry those that are unskilled and unwilling to become skilled any longer. Craft Unionism is for me.

Going to bat for the skilled Informer? I tried that once in 2001 with my "Kick over the Beehive letter" but you wouldn't join me in the fight for the skilled. In fact you have thrown it in my face here, had hung it over your cubicle back in the day, and back then as you are now sport the AMFA agenda. Face it Informer, your not a champion for our cause because your a paper tiger.....Grrraawwweeerrrrr

 

[TWU informer]

Going to bat for the skilled Informer? I tried that once in 2001 with my "Kick over the Beehive letter" but you wouldn't join me in the fight for the skilled. In fact you have thrown it in my face here, had hung it over your cubicle back in the day, and back then as you are now sport the AMFA agenda. Face it Informer, your not a champion for our cause because your a paper tiger.....Grrraawwweeerrrrr

Well, there is huge difference between a piss-ant letter and organizing a better union.
But feed your ego all you like, you need it, and it matters not.

Do you move two rungs up on your ego ladder everytime you call me a paper tiger?
You must be really far up that ladder by now then, I hope it was everything you had hoped for.

I sold more AMFA tshirts in three hours Friday than there are "skilled" machinist so stroke yourself in privacy.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Well, there is huge difference between a piss-ant letter and organizing a better union.
But feed your ego all you like, you need it, and it matters not.

No ego here. Just call it as the events of the past have unfolded. I also encourage others to side upon caution when you come prowling about paper tiger.....Grrrraaawwweeerrrr

 

[TWU informer]

No ego here. Just call it as the events of the past have unfolded. I also encourage others to side upon caution when you come prowling about paper tiger.....Grrrraaawwweeerrrr

LOL, ok then thanks for your help.

 

[High Speed Steel]

I sold more AMFA tshirts in three hours Friday than there are "skilled" machinist so stroke yourself in privacy.

See, there you go again. Slamming the skilled, some things never change.... :wacko: