Predepartue drinks in First Class

[AAStew]

FYI

I Fly domestic.......

I Fly the S80.......

and i do it everytime.

and invariably.....when the #4 does make their way up to first to check the flight time, I hear...."oh wow, you do predepartures....i'm nominating you for a PFA".....they say it sarcastically......and I think to myself....no, no need to nominate me for anything for jsut doing my job.

Yes, NBCGM01, you are right noone needs a drink in that 20 minutes. but from my experience, they are much more appreciative of a drink, than a smile or a how is your day going?

Good for you! Where do you fly out of?
I maintain that it is nearly impossible, unless you want to be performing other non-essential pre-flight duties during taxi.

BTW, the pilots were sent an e-mail yesterday from APA to slow down their taxi to FAA suggested standards.
So if you do want to do that during taxi, it should start being much safer for you.

 

[Nor'Easta]

The only message it sends is that you're a lazy malcontent. Those of us who fly a lot can tell the difference pretty easily, especially if we get the right level of service most of the time.

And you are one of those b***hy Advantage members who we could care less about! Go fly United for all I care.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Revenue down = you lose your job.

Why would anyone want to fly with you as a flight attendant? In case you have not heard, the customers always come first, especially those in the premium cabins.

1. Will not lose my job. Have enough junior f/a's below me.

2. Wrong! Safety always comes first!!

 

[eolesen]

[quote name='Nor'Easta' post='585948' date='Mar 26 2008, 11:12 AM']And you are one of those b***hy Advantage members who we could care less about! Go fly United for all I care.[/quote]

Hey, no problem. I've already earned enough this year to keep Platinum thru Feb 2010 (most of it by flying on QF and BA), so I don't need to fly on AA anymore unless there's no other reasonable alternative or I'm burning up miles...

You seem to have lost focus over what your job really is about and that customers account for 100% of your paycheck.....

Safety related tasks only accounts for perhaps 5% to 10% of your time on the clock. If you despise the other 90% of your job and your employer so much, perhaps you should consider going thru EMT training or something a little less demanding on your time...

 

[Flyboy4u]

Ok..I have been trying to stay out of this nasty post about some spoiled F/C Pax who didnt' get his Pre-Departue Drink, but after recieving the following email from a fellow co-worker I can't help myself. Take note, for obvious reasons, I have deleted names. Oh and "God Forbid "you don't grab that coat and hang it up immediately. Also, those of you "Union" lovers take note of their response, and the company's..Remember, they are there for you! Right!!
______________________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
Subject: FAA Cabin Ride Inspector
Hello Everyone,

Sorry about the delay in getting the word out on this
one, but I had taken some notes on some napkins and
couldn't find the darn things till now.

I flew a BOS t/a last month in February with
XX XXXX who was my number one on a S-80.

Previous to this trip; she had picked up a ATL t/a
and had a FAA cabin inspector do a ride on that
trip. The inspectors name was XXXX.

I hope I got all the information right, but here goes;

XXX was cited for five infractions and both the
#2, and #4 were cited for one infraction each.

I believe the five infractions XXX was cited for
are as follows.

XXX says she was cited for:

-Not making boarding p.a., exhorting pax to take
seats quickly, stow carry ons properly under seat
in front of you or overhead bins and closing bins,
to expedite boarding.

-All bins closed and pax seated before forward
door was closed.

-Opening and closing compartments in galley after
pushback.

-Reading on jumpseat on takeoff and or landing.

-Leaving cart unattended during service.

Both the #2, and #4 were cited for performing non-
safety related tasks after push-back.

-The infractions were that both f/a's as they were
coming through F/C cabin after doing the safety
demo, two different F/C pax held up their coats
to be hung and both f/a's took a coat and hung them
up...because they were hanging pax coats up after
pushback, they are getting sighted for performing
non-safety related items.

XXXX said she received these citations in a verbal
form after the flight was completed by the FAA
cabin inspector and was told she would be receiving
a formal letter from the FAA renumerating and
detailing the infractions.

When I flew the trip with XXXX she had not yet
received the formal letter from the FAA, but was
having ulcers in anticipation of receipt of the letter.

She went to AA and was told, that was totally
between her and the FAA and AA would not get
involved.

She went to the union and was told that was totally
between her and the FAA. The only thing they
would help her do is; help her compose a very
humbling letter. She was also informed that she
would have to hire a lawyer on her own to represent
her and the union would not participate in any
defense.

If my memory is right she could be fined up to
$1,100 per item, per infraction. So I think XXXX is
looking at a worse case scenario of a $5,500 dollar
fine.

Each of the other two f/a's are looking at a possible
fine of up to $1,100 dollars.

XXX was told upon receipt of the letter she had ten
days to respond.

I don't know about you folks but I could have been
cited for a number of things by this particular FAA
inspector too;

- I have in the past, might not have made a P.A. to
expedite boarding, and telling pax to close overhead
bins.

-I know there have been times where I have been
taking preferences in F/C and have had the agent close
the door on me without checking if it was OK to do
so and after discovering the door was closed look
back to see pax still up and bins still open.

-I know there have been times in the past after
pushback that I might have opened or closed a
compartment looking for my P.A. card, UM form,
or final paperwork.

-I know there have been times after pushback that
a pax has handed me a jacket and I have hung it up.

So I guess what I am saying is that many of the things
we do day in and day out in the performance of our
jobs could get us into hot water with a FAA inspector
who is having a bad day, on a power trip, or out to
bust someone's chops.

XXXX admits that she shouldn't have been reading on
the jumpseat, but she says she couldn't believe the
FAA inspector is nailing her for leaving her cart in
F/C when she went back into the galley to retrieve
something. I guess I would of lucked out there as
I'm so old fashioned, I still hand run everything.

But I was thinking if I was in coach and went back
to get another pot of coffee and the seatbelt sign
came on and the other f/a working the cart with me
went to check seatbelts, we both could be nailed for
leaving the cart?

The inspector told XXXX that if she is the only one on
the cart and she has to leave, she is to take the cart
back with her!

So I guess the moral of the story is the FAA or at
least this XXXX lady is on the war path and could
make life very miserable for you.

You could get a 1,100 dollar fine if a lady puts her
purse behind her legs at the bulkhead row...or for
that matter be fined 1,100 dollars for each item on
the floor at a bulkhead seat be it a cup, bottle,
newspaper, shoes, hat, or sweater...seven items at
the bulkhead rows on a plane and you could get up
to a 7,700 dollar fine.

That suitcase or knapsack you didn't see a pax sneak
on top of luggage in a closet that had jackets hung
up obscuring the offending tote bag or carry on
placed on top of the one layer of bags on the floor
and you could get a 1,100 dollar fine.

God forbid you didn't look at the maximum floor
weight load bearing capacity plaque in the closet
and the number of bags on the floor were over the
the load limit, could you get fined for that?

While I'm in a "Danger Will Robinson" warning
mode and I've been through a law suit with a pax
who sued me for spilling coffee on him. I was told
by the law firm AA hired to defend me that since
I did everything by the book, AA and the law firm
would defend me to the utmost.

I would caution those animal lovers among you
who are inclined to allow or encourage people with
pets in carriers to have the animals out in their laps,
under blankets or out of the carrier, you are putting
yourself in grave danger.

If the person asks you if they can take the animal
out of the carrier and you say "sure thats OK" and
any other passenger hears you say that, or you say
"oh, what a cute dog/cat, can I take a look at her?,
and you encourage the release of the animal from
the carrier and during the flight that dog or cat,
gets loose, scratches, claws or bites another pax,
you are in a world of hurt, because you directly
OK'd or encouraged the release of the animal from
the carrier contrary to AA regs. (Boarding 3:11);
-The pet must remain in the closed and sealed kennel
throughout the entire flight.
-F/A's must not touch or play with pets onboard or
allow them to ride outside their kennels.
...in a case like that, good luck in having AA defend
you. Hiring your own lawyer to defend you and
keeping your possessions could be very difficult in
a law suit.

Losing everything you worked for, so a cute little
doggie or cat could sit on someone's lap, no, it's not
worth it and I have pets that I love and are my kids
to me! (Emotional Support Service Animals are a
whole different story...but that has to be documented
and in the paperwork before boarding.)

So beware of FAA inspectors and especially this
XXX lady!!!!


Regards,
XXXXX

 

[AirLUVer]

Could it be that the FAA inspector was most upset about the reading on the jumpseat during take off and landing, and slapped on all the other infractions to top that off?

 

[Flyboy4u]

Does it matter? INFRACTIONS are infractions. She admitted to the reading on the jumpseat but everything else is common place except with me. The last thing I will even consider is a Pre Departure drink, and that coat that's on "Fire" too bad...Apparently, there are more Important things that are required of me and will Co$$t me in the end..Sorry about your drink!

 

[kuro_kuma]

FYI

I Fly domestic.......

I Fly the S80.......

and i do it everytime.

and invariably.....when the #4 does make their way up to first to check the flight time, I hear...."oh wow, you do predepartures....i'm nominating you for a PFA".....they say it sarcastically......and I think to myself....no, no need to nominate me for anything for jsut doing my job.

Yes, NBCGM01, you are right noone needs a drink in that 20 minutes. but from my experience, they are much more appreciative of a drink, than a smile or a how is your day going?

If it's invariably, then my guess it's not sarcastic. I'd probably say the same thing if they're individual requests and the loads are at what they are 90 percent of the time and catering can happen even 10 minutes before the door closes...and able to do it every single time. Sometimes it's not physically possible if there are other duties to do (other than double catered, 1 hr flights) when you have a full meal service that has more inventory than drinks and bags of nuts. On taxi, the only thing you an do is pick up the pre-departure cups since that's considered safety related.

 

[eolesen]

I agree with AirLUVer. Reading in the jumpseat (the often scorned yet stereotypical image of lazy malcontents) is probably what set off the inspector.

Or maybe he didn't get his pre-departure drink, either...

I have to laugh at the "safety doesn't allow us to do it" arguments, since the whole notion of pre-departure drinks is to do it before the door closes, presumably during pre-boarding. It obviously -can- be done pretty consistently by other airlines who have to comply with the same FAA rules, and it's done fairly consistently by AA FA's who have all the same regs and exposure to being fined.

Are premium customers really spoiled? Hardly. I see it as a matter of questioning why most other airlines and some AA FA's are able to do it, but a subset of AA FA's never seem to find the time.

If those who spend this much time defending the inconsistency would apply just a fraction of that effort and apply it towards following the few basic expectations of a service job, this wouldn't even be a line of discussion....

 

[Flyboy4u]

I agree with AirLUVer. Reading in the jumpseat (the often scorned yet stereotypical image of lazy malcontents) is probably what set off the inspector.

Or maybe he didn't get his pre-departure drink, either...

I have to laugh at the "safety doesn't allow us to do it" arguments, since the whole notion of pre-departure drinks is to do it before the door closes, presumably during pre-boarding. It obviously -can- be done pretty consistently by other airlines who have to comply with the same FAA rules, and it's done fairly consistently by AA FA's who have all the same regs and exposure to being fined.

Are premium customers really spoiled? Hardly. I see it as a matter of questioning why most other airlines and some AA FA's are able to do it, but a subset of AA FA's never seem to find the time.

If those who spend this much time defending the inconsistency would apply just a fraction of that effort and apply it towards following the few basic expectations of a service job, this wouldn't even be a line of discussion....

I tell you Eolesen....I will be happy to give you a predeparture drink and do it with a smile. However, If the overhead bins aren't closed, all the passengers aren't seated, and the agent just happens to close the door as I am handing you your drink, I hope you have deep enough pockets to pay the fines. I guarntee you the F/A who happens to get these fines will NEVER do pre-departures again No matter what Airline!...BTW....Please go to those other carriers and fly them. Just one less arrogant, and spoiled customer who does't grasp the tiniest bit of what the F/A job actually entails. It's not about drinks and hanging coats.

 

[Nor'Easta]

Hey, no problem. I've already earned enough this year to keep Platinum thru Feb 2010 (most of it by flying on QF and BA), so I don't need to fly on AA anymore unless there's no other reasonable alternative or I'm burning up miles...

You seem to have lost focus over what your job really is about and that customers account for 100% of your paycheck.....

Safety related tasks only accounts for perhaps 5% to 10% of your time on the clock. If you despise the other 90% of your job and your employer so much, perhaps you should consider going thru EMT training or something a little less demanding on your time...

Glad to hear I will not have to deal with someone like you ! But, you are dead wrong about what our main job priority is....SAFETY IS #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW...Don't let the door slam you in the a** on the way out to the other airlines! Buh-Bye!

 

[kuro_kuma]

The big E for ego, not all explanations are lame excuses. The OP posted a question and got a variety of answers and legit reasons as to why some flights do and some flights dont. In my experience, most of the time they are done. Just because you think pre dept drinks can be done in every situation and every time unless you're still doing them on take off, then obviously you havent done the job either. Also, pre-boarding lasts maybe 5 minutes and during that time bags are still being stored so it's hardly enough time to run out 22 drinks even with an extra....and that's IF every f/c passenger preboards at once...I'd even settle for most. That doesn't happen either. It's amazing how some people who have to have to get their drink on during boarding has to counter any explanation given other than lazy or being millitant. I commuted for years now and no, not all other domestic airlines do them on every flight either for the same reasons some of ours havent. They're just as inconsistent as we are. Luckily, most passengers are understanding during one of the busiest times, and gotta have it no matter what isn't in their vocabuary and realize there's 5 hours to have all they want. I know of many, efficient, hard working flight attendants with a slew of SOSs and compliments who were not able to do them for reasons and time constraints beyond their control. As far as comparing to international carriers who only do long haul out of the US, it reminds me of that little old lady who made a big stink because we werent serving a hot breakfast on a 1 hr flt from detroit to chicago since BA did from the us to london.

 

[butchord]

Something sounds fishy.....call me a skeptic... but one would think that the FAA has more important and pressing matters to concern themselves with than those items that you mentioned.

 

[Flyboy4u]

Skeptic? you are definetly one, and an idiot at that!...My guess, a selfish, snobish flyer who doesn't understand " the Law " , but is only interested in him/herself's personal interest/'s, and gain, no matter what the costs to everybody/anybody else...Sounds like the typical "American " passenger! As F/A's we are governed, and controlled by the FEDERAL Law. Meaning FAA directives..Yes AA, the company I work for, also has their procedures which often interferes with "Actual" Laws. However, the company, nor the union, will protect the individual F/A's who can obviously get fined personally for not following the Federal ( FAA ) law. You think the FAA has more pressing matters...If that's the case, Why do I have to know " Current " directives on a daily basis issued by them? If not, I can lose thousands of personal money.. BTW...Was that a coke you wanted before takeoff, or a glass of red wine?

 

[eolesen]

I tell you Eolesen....I will be happy to give you a predeparture drink and do it with a smile. However, If the overhead bins aren't closed, all the passengers aren't seated, and the agent just happens to close the door as I am handing you your drink, I hope you have deep enough pockets to pay the fines. I guarntee you the F/A who happens to get these fines will NEVER do pre-departures again No matter what Airline!...BTW....Please go to those other carriers and fly them. Just one less arrogant, and spoiled customer who does't grasp the tiniest bit of what the F/A job actually entails. It's not about drinks and hanging coats.

Go into RES and pull up N*APS96019 and read the signature line at the very bottom following "16APR96"...

Or N*APS97088. Same topic, different year...

I'll give you a hint. I wrote both of those, and was still receiving FA manual updates up until the day I resigned from AA...

Sure, there are good reasons why it can't be done some of the time, and that's understandable. But don't expect me to buy the "it's impossible to do" B.S. because, again, it's being done on a somewhat regular basis...