Plenty of work for new Tulsa Hangar

[JimJimmyJim]

I totally agree with you and I have that respect for you and all TWAers.

 

[The Goose]

<_< -------Jim, the only thing I've expected of any AA employee is the respect due us as exTWA AMT's! We may not have seen eye to eye on a lot of issues, but I feel most exTWAers do respect their fellow AA counterparts! ---------Will AA close MCIE? I have to admit it looks that way! I wish it were not so! What a waste of talent and resources! :down:

It's a sad fact that a decision to close any facility, said facility being a part of a corporation run strictly by numbers (read bean counters and cpas) never considers the actual assets of what is being trashed - there's no value that can be assigned to people and their collective knowledge on a balance sheet, therefore, that value doesn't exist. Of course, this statement or anything similar will be poo-poohed by those who freely admit not working for AMR due to their infinite wisdom.

Get over it, Mr. MCI - unless you've spent 6+ years of your life in college getting a third party's opinion as to whether or not you might know what you're doing and have, on a parallel course, spent those same years learning to move a golf ball through a garden hose solely by generating negative pressure, (or starting a Harley-Davidson by the same method) you haven't a prayer for any consideration in the world of business.

Discourage all those you can from pursuing any career in or related to aviation unless it's military-'til-retirement.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -------Sorry Goose! All I have is fourty years in the Airline Game, plus four more Military!----- By the standards you put forward, I guess I just don't have the right stuff!!! :unsure:

 

[The Goose]

<_< -------Sorry Goose! All I have is fourty years in the Airline Game, plus four more Military!----- By the standards you put forward, I guess I just don't have the right stuff!!! :unsure:

Yup - I don't have it either.

Neither of us having the "right stuff" is something we both can be proud of.

 

[777 fixer]

<_< ----- Why is it you'all are so anxious to close MCI? As Ken said, they do have those two big bays that can handle anything in AA's fleet including the 777.----- Although AA has access to wide body hanger space all over their domestic system that is going unused! The old exTWA hanger at LAX was used for 747, L1011 "C" checks. Two at a time! And their own hanger at LAX, I believe, is big enough to handle wide bodies!------- So they need more??? :huh:

Given the costs who is going to do heavy checks at LAX? Continental pulled out in the early ninties. Swissair Technics tried to do heavy maintenance at Palmdale and it did not work out. Then of course there's the plans to tear down those hangars anyway. When it ahppens who knows. However why spend the money and take the chance?

 

[MCI transplant]

Given the costs who is going to do heavy checks at LAX? Continental pulled out in the early ninties. Swissair Technics tried to do heavy maintenance at Palmdale and it did not work out. Then of course there's the plans to tear down those hangars anyway. When it ahppens who knows. However why spend the money and take the chance?

<_< -----Which leaves MCIE!----- Two "Super Bays," experienced workforce, centrally located, and relatively inexpensive!------- So why do you feel they're so eager to close it? :huh: Or is this all just a matter of wishful thinking on the part of the AFW/TUL membership???

 

[Bob Owens]

But the reality has already been noted: the fleet size will soon be smaller than it was when there was only one AA maintenance base and AA really doesn't want to commit to MRO on a large scale.

The fleet size may be the same but the fleet composition is different and Tulsa is much smaller than it used to be as far as headcount.

Tulsa and AFW combined is around what Tulsa used to be by itself, and a greater percentage of our Fleet is widebodies, which use up more heads. So we are not as "fat" with mechanics as some make out. (When you factor in OSMs then we have even less people at mechanics rates of pay.) If we were then the company would have been more generous with the VBRs. Its not the "base" that holds value-its the mechanics. AA has more work than they know what to do with for the next two years.

They didnt offer the VBR to the line , where in some stations they exhausted the recall lists with huge rates or people saying 'no thanks, take that job and shove it'.

I agree that AA's committment as far as being an MRO isnt there. Crandall ditched a lot of it years ago, he said he wasnt going to use AA's resources to help competitors stay in business. I dont think they would keep a seperate location going just to do MRO work, they use MRO work to fill in when they are slow with their own stuff. But right now the MRO ruse is a good tool to get the union to agree to more concesions. Got to hand it to AA management, no matter how incompetant we accuse them of being they always come up with something to get us to screw ourselves.

Advance notice (and I'm talking about several months, not 30 days) would give the smart ones the ability to plan an exit strategy into another career field or relocating without a big rush at the last minute.

Is this too much to ask? Guess so.

My guess is you have a lot of years in this industry, there aren't many Howard Hughs, Eddie Rickenbackers, CR Smiths or Juan Trips around anymore. These guys have no heart, as Crandall said "This is a nasty rotten business", and people like him made it that way. Todays Airline execs come in, make a lot of money for themselves, get us to committ to the success of the company by giving away benifits and wages, the savings are then quickly absorbed by the "other" players in the industry which only to put us in the position of giving up more and more again.

AA brought in around $18 billion in 2003 with 24000 more employees than they had last year, the employees gave up 25% in wages and benifits, helped the company eliminate 24000 jobs and total revenue increased by nearly $7billion (in addition to the savings on labor) by 2008 yet they still lost money. Sure fuel went way up but the oil companies weren't the only ones with their hands in the till.

The point is no matter how much we give up we will never make our jobs more secure, the other players will simply increase what they take, whether its the airports jacking up landing fees by 30%, vendors jacking up their rates, lenders charging more interest or the government increasing departure tax and security fees it will never end. One of the airline industries biggest partners is the government, and they pretend to be a neutral arbitrator. The Airline industry is the only mass transit system in the country that generates revenue for the government, and its made possible by taking it away from us. $1000 toilet seats, come on! Skeptical, thinking "This guy see's balck helicopters too"? Just look back at what the federal courts did with the bankruptcy proceedings, they imposed contracts on workers, basically confiscated their labor, but they didnt confiscate the property of the oil companies. If the court had the power to dictate what workers could charge for labor then why couldnt, or didnt, they do the same thing to the oil companies, or the airports or any of the other players? Sure some may have "lost" monies owed to them (think about how much they "lost" selling toilet seats that at home Deport would fetch $20 to the airlines at $1000) but they werent forced to sell their property well into the future at lower court dictated rates.

 

[Mr.Robot-tow]

Bob are you allowed to explain to us the meeting that took place concerning what AA has concering with the retirement of the MD80,what the workload looks like for next couple of years? I was told it was a presentation with Romaneo and staff.I was told by a source also that there will be alot of empty space coming up in the next couple of years.Also I notice lately that with the flight changes coming up some class 2 will be down to less than 5 a/c on overnight and with a daytime trips around the 20's.Thoughts.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob are you allowed to explain to us the meeting that took place concerning what AA has concering with the retirement of the MD80,what the workload looks like for next couple of years? I was told it was a presentation with Romaneo and staff.I was told by a source also that there will be alot of empty space coming up in the next couple of years.Also I notice lately that with the flight changes coming up some class 2 will be down to less than 5 a/c on overnight and with a daytime trips around the 20's.Thoughts.

There was a meeting in June at negotiations in MCI where the company discussed the future workload in overhaul and the "white spaces" that would result in some job losses by 2012. I believe this was put out in the Negotiations update for June. But up until then they had plenty of work in the bases. The white spaces were a few years down the road and they will be generated by the retirement of MD-80s. The new 737s wont be due for heavy checks for a while and they may be retiring MD-80s faster than they are recieving brand new 737s if they continue to shrink capacity. The message at negotiations was that they needed lower labor costs to generate more 3P work and save the 600 to 800 jobs that the white spaces would result in. With an expected attrition rate of 300 to 400 mechanics a year(systemwide) the company would have to hire 900 to 1200 just to maintian current total headcount so basically we are chasing 3P work with a concessionary contract for people who dont even work here yet.

While the fate of small class II stations is always precarious we were told that no rifs planned this year. Thats not really an answer but thats all I got.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

So let them hire 3P people to do 3P work in a fabric 3P hanger. The money they make off the sweat of the new 3P person should help the bottom line.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Bob, do you feel the Company is committed to bring in more MRO work? Or are they just using it as a negotiations ploy? Or are they even talking MRO work at this point? :huh:

 

[Mr.Robot-tow]

Thanks for that,and has sub-committee finished so that they can report back to the table and why hasn't the mediator set a date yet to finish the remaining article's so that we have can have a T/A look at.Also whats up with AFW president with you and Local 562 President,this is a reason to start a card drive if any.I give up,why would you attack a president in the middle of neg's.Sorry to hear about this Bob.I hope that local wakes up and fire's that president really sad and just before the convention I wonder if this has any thing to do with the agenda for the convention.

 

[Vortilon]

There was a meeting in June at negotiations in MCI where the company discussed the future workload in overhaul and the "white spaces" that would result in some job losses by 2012. I believe this was put out in the Negotiations update for June. But up until then they had plenty of work in the bases. The white spaces were a few years down the road and they will be generated by the retirement of MD-80s. The new 737s wont be due for heavy checks for a while and they may be retiring MD-80s faster than they are recieving brand new 737s if they continue to shrink capacity. The message at negotiations was that they needed lower labor costs to generate more 3P work and save the 600 to 800 jobs that the white spaces would result in. With an expected attrition rate of 300 to 400 mechanics a year(systemwide) the company would have to hire 900 to 1200 just to maintian current total headcount so basically we are chasing 3P work with a concessionary contract for people who dont even work here yet.

While the fate of small class II stations is always precarious we were told that no rifs planned this year. Thats not really an answer but thats all I got.

As far as class two stations go - it looks like Detroit & San Jose are going to be clipped. Due to the fact that they will be down to two overnighters. Not good news...

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------ Bob, do you feel the Company is committed to bring in more MRO work? Or are they just using it as a negotiations ploy? Or are they even talking MRO work at this point? :huh:

My personal feeling is that they will do whatever falls on thier doorstep,when it suits them. Right now the company is shrinking so they are using it as a ploy to gain more concessions. The "white spaces", the past has shown me that the company will get their concessions and cut the heads anyway if they feel they need to.

We do some 3P at JFK and offered the company a schedule that would allow them to do more without increasing headcount but they rejected it. The lack of a reasonable explaination as to why they turned us down pretty much says they really arent interested. I think that each station has their own discussions as far as 3P work so I can only comment on our location.

 

[TWU informer]

How many times will the TWU fall for the "concessions for jobs" scam?

There should be DFR lawsuits filed over the last claim by the TWU that we were "saving jobs" with concessions. Very few if any of the deceased, retired, terminated, or resignations have been replaced since the farm was given away by the infamous "without further ratification" James C. Little agreement.

Tulsa Base management cannot even manage our own overhaul worth a crap much less 3 party work. We currently lease 6 CFM-56 and 2 CF6-80A engines and rumor has it we are going to lease 10 more CFM's/ The so-called Pulse Line is working enough overtime for the average AMT to earn near $100,000.00. The AMT can afford the divorce caused from living at the base and most seem to find the trade-off worth it.

The base is nothing more than a copy of Romano's idea of using propaganda to make it appear the base is successful. Everyone inside the fence is a witness to the truth. The Base Newsletter, the media blitz campaigns indicate a wonderful direction in overhaul maintenance. Inside the fence we couldn't do our overhaul in a manner worthy of being MRO because management is just as interested in saving their headcount as the TWU is interesting in trading concessions for jobs. In the end, we are top heavy with management that were hack mechanics when on the floor and these pleated pant groupies couldnt manage their way to profit at the Local Farmers Market.