Pit Papers View On Today's Court Action

[NeedForSpeedNFS]

thanks for the free spirited open minded posts.....

[post="189123"][/post]​

Wait one second there Dell, I think this poster hit it correctly! WE ALL know about the "country club" atmosphere that NOONE wants to talk about. If you do try to mention that, your slammed as "anti-union"!!! Everyone knows the truth. The fact remains, this industry has changed, and U will do whatever they want now that they are in BK, to become an LCC. If not, they will liquidate, and save their souls, and move on to another high paying corporate job! All this rhetoric and "chest poundind" I have been seeing is rather amusing!!! GOOD DAY!!!!!

 

[CS AGENT]

The union groups here are already doing pretty a good job in the act of self-destruction. Management/non-union jobs had their pensions eliminated close to 15 years ago.

[post="189116"][/post]​

CWA members lost their pension at the same time. We listened to the company then...Don't vote in a union and we'll take care of you...They took care of us all right. We voted in CWA to protect WHAT WAS LEFT and have never been given credit for what had already been lost. They continue to ask the same % from us as the groups that still have a pension. In the early 90's our group gave a tremendous amount to supliment other groups raises. Post BK1 we gave to supliment other groups pensions. Our pay and benifit package is below all LCC's except HP, whom does not even compete in our markets. Why should the judge grant the company relief from our contract when it is more competive than any of our competition. U is barking up the wrong tree here.

 

[767jetz]

Awesome.
PS: Anyone see signs of stirring from USA320????? Nah, me either. He'll probably have a sleepless night disappointed the the judge didn't rule.

[post="189052"][/post]​

My thoughts exactly. I bet he is beside himself, seeing that his prediction of the judge giving the company a blank check to do anything they want didn't materialize.

IMO, this judge will scrutinize every request and not be rushed to make a decision. He will probably grant some temporary cuts and insist on consensual agreements with the employees. His message to the comapny was clear to me: "Not so fast buddy! I see what you're up to and you better tread carefully in my court!"

With regard to ALPA and the RC4/NC, I believe pilots will start to see that going before the judge (and retaining the right to self help) is not as scarey as USA320 and his vocal minority wanted everyone to believe. As this unfolds in the next week or so, I think it will only further assure that ALPA's T/A is not ratified by the majority of pilots.

As for USA320, I'm sure he is regrouping and preparing for his next onslaught of propaganda. He'll be back any time now. You can count on it. (Probably meeting with managment right now to find out what they want him to do 😛 )

 

[UseYourHead]

First,

I guess we see things different. You see, ALPA has been advised for months as to what was to come, and we in fact had 4 guys who stood up...it resulted in what they were repeatedly told would happen with delay.

This is a math problem, plain and simple, and it is being imposed beceause of the timeline, we are way past where we should have all acted in our best interests. We will see if the judge believes what the company has to say, it is in a 41 page brief, have you read it?

The only reason it is a 23% cut is because it does not encompass other areas, something that ultimately will be addresed. It could be much less for the AFA, I'm sure, assuming other areas are modified.

The days of having what we have at Airways are other, we must compete with these low fares and make money, or not have jobs. I think going in with your eyes open and picking and choosing is not cowardly, and that all groups would be best off to do so...but it is a math problem and targets need to be meet to get the support of wall street.

PITBull has said repeatedly that if the company can not make money it should just go away...the company is attempting to make money in the low fare enviroment by court imposed changes to the contract.

They told us it would happen, and now it is happening. So we will see shortly how the judge feels about it.

On page 19 of the breif, he FA pay is compared to the industry and after a 23% emergency relief, US Airways FAs are in the middle of the pack ahead of AWA, Sprirt, JetBlue, AirTran, and Southwwest.

I have a feeling that will be a tough sell to prevent changes. There are charts like this for eack employee group as well.

Good luck to us all, and that you for the civil debate.

UYH

I don't think Pitbull is in anyway suggesting that the judge would not implement any cut..just that he may not believe evreything the managment represented lawyers say. You see, this group has scared us sooo badly into believing whatever they say. If the judge says 23%, then fine. But to not stand up to these jerks? Now THAT would be cowardly!! :angry:

[post="189098"][/post]​

 

[PITbull]

from the article -

The judge, in delaying a decision on that payment, acknowledged that pensions "are one of the reasons people take the jobs they take." Leitch countered by saying that employees "shouldn't be counting on" their pensions as a reason for working at US Airways.

He must be from the law firm Dewey, Cheetham and Howe.....

[post="189077"][/post]​

Res agent,

You are exactly correct. Leitch acutally had the arrogance to also add that the employees have been told many times that the pensions are not a vehicle to rely on for retirment.

The judge simply retorted by saying well, that is the main reason why epople continue employment with one company is for that promised pension.

All of senior managment was huddled in a corner like on a football team getting theier next "play" ready, Jerry was no a happy camper and his frustrated affect was simply priceless.


Again, the judge expressed in the court room that he is not on the company's "timeline".

 

[BoeingBoy]

UYH,

"This is a math problem, plain and simple"

Something we can agree on, though I suspect we're talking about different things.

According to the 2nd quarter report, our NON-LABOR costs amount to just over 8 cents per seat mile.

I believe that also contained in the 41-page document you mentioned is the company's statement that they have exhausted all avenues of cost savings except labor. They wouldn't lie to the judge, would they?

Do you start to see the math problem yet?

About 6 months ago on the ALPA board I "said" that if the company were to survive on labor concessions one only had to look at MDA to see what it would take. That math still looks pretty accurate....

Will you still be willing to vote Yes on the TA that takes us there?

Jim

 

[PITbull]

PitBull,

It is true that the judge has not ruled on this, not a surprise. I would hope he does think things out, and that he will do the right thing. This is BK cort, and in the end the judge must make a ruling that the math works to operate and pay creditors.

If you are not negotiating, you should be, the ruling is coming, as will pay and benefit cuts, it is a not brainer.

Get with it. Next week we shall see...what are you hoping for, no pay cut? Do you think that would work?

Or do you just want to see us liquidate so you can work with you daughter?

BTW, insulting me for my viewpoint is not debate, that is why I did not respond to your last replies to me...you better than that (I thought), prove it.

[post="189090"][/post]​

Well UYH,

I am quite sic of your insults. Takes two to tangle.

With regard to negotiations. Where did you learn that word and do you understand its meaning?

ALPA did not get a negotiated deal, they capitulated because of FEAR. Jerry's biggest trump card, is to progressively make the proposals worse so that labor can "kick themselves all over the place " for not accepting the previous deal.

What he endeavors to accomplish with that atrategy is to get the membership to hate the leadership, and divide the group, bust the unions and fracture their ability to organize.

YOU DON'T GET IT BECAUSE YOU JUST REFUSE TO "USE YOU HEAD"!

And I want to add THAT THE IAM KICKED BUTT IN THERE AND TOOK NO NAMES!

Come to the next hearing and watch you so called "legal eagles" give another luke warm presentation.

 

[jimntx]

On page 19 of the breif, he FA pay is compared to the industry and after a 23% emergency relief, US Airways FAs are in the middle of the pack ahead of AWA, Sprirt, JetBlue, AirTran, and Southwwest.

[post="189164"][/post]​

As Mark Twain said, there are lies, there are d@mn lies, and then there are statistics.

1. Did the company use Southwest current or recently signed contract?
2. As Southwest f/as are paid by the "trip"--1 trip = 243 air miles--how did the company compare this to U f/as hourly rate?
3. SW f/as have a scheduled duty day of 10 hours. I believe that U f/as can be scheduled somewhat higher than that.
4. If SW f/a duty day goes over 12 hours for any reason--weather, mtc ATC hold--the f/a is paid double for the day. If the duty day goes over 16 hours for any reason, the f/a is paid triple for the day. Did the company include this information in their comparison? I don't believe that U f/as have anything like this in their contract.

If you take the totality of the two contracts, I doubt seriously that following a 23% paycut the U f/as would be ahead of (or even on the same lap as) SWA f/as.

 

[PITbull]

And one more thing.

I am sure that the company now will zoom in on AFA and attempt to put the fear of god in the MEC and try to separate the members from the leaders.

AFA is and will continue to present proposals that our members can vote on. We will not continue to be on the company's time table and rush a proposal in for fear of what a judge may or may not do or fall in Jerry's hands to make his job successful.

WILL -NOT- DO!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jimntx,

You forgot one....

Comparing mostly top of scale at U to the average scale at the LCC's. IOW, wanting U's TOS compensation to be comparable to others mid-scale or lower compensation.

Jim

 

[PSA1979]

"On page 19 of the breif, the FA pay is compared to the industry and after a 23% emergency relief, US Airways FAs are in the middle of the pack ahead of AWA, Sprirt, JetBlue, AirTran, and Southwwest. "

Actually if you look at f/a compensation comparisons on AFA local 40 website ( dated March 04), after the 23% US f/a's would be number 24. Only AirTran is lower than that. This is based on 75 hour a month average. That is outrageous!! They don't want us to be competitive with AWA, Sprirt, JetBlue, and Southwwest. They want us to be competitive with MDA, our wholly owned, and American Eagle!

 

[Smartest Loser]

In my opinion...The judge is not so quick to jump at the company’s ideas. (What you want and what you get are two different things)

I do think he is trying to get the parties together before he steps in. If your case is weak then settle before you go to trial, if its strong then go to trial. What you gamble on is something not going your way…You losing something you could have had.

That’s what U is doing...gambling it will go their way. I hope they have another plan..!!

 

[novaqt]

767Jetz:



I'm sure you're right, he is meeting with management!

 

[Justaramper]

Hard to take a paycut, when the CEO has not taken one...

 

[oldiebutgoody]

It's absolutely amazing. This company is down to no arms and one leg, yet people are still yelling, "Dance, Bojangles!."

[post="189100"][/post]​

"Only a flesh wound!"
-monty python