PIT commuters to PHL

[signals]

This company has never, ever done anything to help commuters..and I am not arguing they are required to by market forces. But that said....

I moved to PIT in 2002 from Atlanta, because management was cutting everything after 911..even the thief Siegel made it clear they expected us to live in base. PIT closed 3 years later. And to follow so did LAS, BOS, and LGA. We do not "commute because we choose to."

As to commuters "not generating revenue" that is management's choice. I can see many scenarios where commuters might just do that.

RR

One of the threads in this forum when I joined was that US commuters Phil-Pitt were causing scenes and practically a riot at the WN counters "demanding" to get on the aircraft! We even read about the warnings that a certain 'Tina', I believe, was was telling the commuters that Southwest won't put up with their bursts for much longer.

Maybe if WN isn't going to go out of its way for commuters, you should blame yourselves.

I'm just saying B)

 

[signals]

Why is it that people think that we should keep flts to PIT so we can help out commuters ?? If the market does not make money then you pull it regardless of how many people commute on the market. This is a business and we are here to make money. You commute because you choose to. The company has no obligation to commuters .Only to its stock holders. It may sound harsh but its the truth . No major that i know of schedules their flts because of the number of commuters there are between the two cities . They look at the revenue generating capabilities it offers . No revenue ,No flight .Commuters do not generate revenue . Paying passengers do.

In a nutshell

 

[PullUp]

One of the threads in this forum when I joined was that US commuters Phil-Pitt were causing scenes and practically a riot at the WN counters "demanding" to get on the aircraft! We even read about the warnings that a certain 'Tina', I believe, was was telling the commuters that Southwest won't put up with their bursts for much longer.

Maybe if WN isn't going to go out of its way for commuters, you should blame yourselves.

I'm just saying B)

That is not the problem and you know it. Sheesh. Yes, there were squabbles between senior mamas trying to intimidate junior mamas into relinquishing their seats-and in front of the podium, for cripes sake!
That was three years ago, though. Old news. In the past. Not relevant anymore. Everyone involved now knows the system, what is expected, and how to behave.
LUV's problem is as stated - loads and revenue. Just not there. Not enough. Which was kind of foreseen by the commuters...40 paying pax PIT-PHL consistently and the route isn't going to last that long...
LCC matched them and beat them on a couple PHL routes - good for LCC who can now raise fares on those routes with the constrained capacity.
It is that 'constrained capacity' that concerns the PIT folks, who (contrary to popular belief) are all: 1. Human beings; 2. Family people with spouses and children; 3. Property owners; 4. Have ties to the communities they live in (friends, family, church, etc); 5. Have spouses that hold jobs here.
And, just for the record, we all want to get to work, too. Quitting, as some have suggested, is not an option.
So, have a little humanity - PIT people are trying to do the right thing for their employer and their families, as well as their finances. It is a difficult equation to balance and seems to change all the time.
BTW, anyone have any suggestions for good areas to live around PHL or CLT? I've got U-Haul on speed dial now, but I'm not looking forward to it.
Cheers.

 

[Black Swan]

Yeah, AWA really showed them! What are they down to a couple of flights a day now out of PHX and LAS?
[/quote

 

[SparrowHawk]

Anyhow, it's another victory for Parker and Kirby over the supposedly invincible LUV. LUV first tried to crush them at PHX when AWA was almost out of money after 9/11, and our Dynamic Duo came up with a pricing strategy to keep LUV at bay. It was a remarkable aviation story, never fully told.

So, in PHL, it's no surprise that LUV's fortunes immediately went south once AWA bought US. Here, Parker and Kirby had the better hand -- US's huge hub operation. You may remember that LUV moved into PHL shortly before this purchase, figuring they could replace US when it died.

So now we have some more great fundamental news today, and the stock is still down! What a crazy market. Someday, it will matter, if we all don't go broke first.

Then we have the comments from sweetflyer2:

SWA is running away from PHL, it appears. DP said SWA wasn't doing much there and LCC was killing them, guess he was right.

I don't want to rain on your parade, however Doug & Scott had little to do with saving HP or US in terms of coming up with a pricing strategy to keep WN at bay either in PHX or PHL! The credit should go to Andrew Nocella, Senior Vice President, Marketing and Planning. He started with HP and came up with their above mentioned pricing strategy which worked so well CCY hired him away from HP to work his magic at the original US Airways.

I have long held the opinion that if ONE person is to be given credit for saving the two carriers it should be Andrew. While he may not have slain the WN dragon, he is one of the few who have put a few bruises, cuts and scrapes on that old dragon. You want to give DP & SK some Props? Credit them for having the wisdom to hire Andrew in the first place. The problem at US is it needs fewer SK's and more Andrew Nocella's.

My prediction is that US will add flights to replace some of the lost WN capacity, but only enough capacity to maximize the new found pricing power brought on by WN deciding to leave the market. Perhaps now that WN seems to be backing away from PIT & PHL to a certain extent maybe we'll see a few more flights added back into PIT???

 

[signals]

Maybe it has already been said or maybe it's irrelevant but new WN service

 

[SparrowHawk]

Maybe it has already been said or maybe it's irrelevant but new WN service

BEGINNING JANUARY 7, 2012 (open for sale today):
One new daily nonstop roundtrip between Nashville and Fort Myers.
One new daily nonstop roundtrip between Denver and Providence.
One new daily nonstop roundtrip between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and Manchester.
One new daily nonstop roundtrip between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and Milwaukee.

BEGINNING FEBRUARY 12, 2012 (open for sale today):
One new daily nonstop roundtrip between Long Island/Islip and Fort Myers.

I found their service additions to be quite interesting as it appears they are trying at least on some of the new routes to attract business away from US, just in a different way

 

[N965VJ]

It is that 'constrained capacity' that concerns the PIT folks, who (contrary to popular belief) are all: 1. Human beings; 2. Family people with spouses and children; 3. Property owners; 4. Have ties to the communities they live in (friends, family, church, etc); 5. Have spouses that hold jobs here.
And, just for the record, we all want to get to work, too. Quitting, as some have suggested, is not an option.

The same could be said for any other base that closed, heck, look at the whole PSA operation on the west coast. Remember that thing about agreeing to be flexible to relocation back when you were hired? The sense of entitlement displayed by some PITheads is embarrassing.

 

[PSA1979]

[BTW, anyone have any suggestions for good areas to live around PHL or CLT? I've got U-Haul on speed dial now, but I'm not looking forward to it.
Cheers.
[/quote]

I have a house for sale 45 minutes to the employee lot in Maryland on an acre south of PHL. PM me and I will send you info on it, if you are interested.
Laura

 

[700UW]

If you move to Charlotte, I would live in Mooresville, your 30 minutes from the airport, out of Mecklenburg County taxes. Huge lake area and great schools.

 

[Onestep2flt]

The same could be said for any other base that closed, heck, look at the whole PSA operation on the west coast. Remember that thing about agreeing to be flexible to relocation back when you were hired? The sense of entitlement displayed by some PITheads is embarrassing.

You can't equate commuting to entitlement. For sure there are those who feel entitled for various reasons. A lot of the argument seems to be predicated on the choice to commute. It is a little deeper than that though. Someone commented about flexibility. That is fine if your company has a strong business plan and believes in the employee enough to allow people to plan ahead. Just because you choose to commute does not mean you want to commute either. Remember, a lot of these folks have family. If you have a husband/wife who has an established job in a certain community and your children are in school, It is not as easy as packing up and moving. Another thing to look at is some folks have a house which may belong to them outright. They may have older relatives that they must take care of. Packing up and moving to another base which may or may not be there next week does not make a lot of economic since for some as well. They said they were not going to close Pittsburgh. Who thought they would ever close New York. Your employees all came from places like Los Angles, Dayton, Winton Salem, Baltimore, San Diego, San Fransisco. Why? Because these were bases for PSA, Piedmont, Allegheny. Management changes, mergers happen, bases close. You can't control that.

To tell these folks if they don't like it quit, or just move is is pretty shallow and not well thought out. Some of these folks have been loyal employees for years. I am sorry to see that you are losing an option to work. I hope you can find a way to mitigate the loss without too much sacrifice. Yes, employees of any job has to have flexibility. It will be up to the individual to decide their next move. I don't understand the Pittsburgh bashers. I find it quite a nice community when I have been there. This is where US Airways got it's start so there is some since of pride for these folks as well not to be mistaken for entitlement.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

To tell these folks if they don't like it quit, or just move is is pretty shallow and not well thought out. Some of these folks have been loyal employees for years.

You seem pretty earnest about what you are saying so this is not directed at you, however for those of you who were crappy to commuters in the past - this is for you.

Being a commuter since '97 when the west was sacrificed to save the east, I have been the recipient of this very line many times.

Every single time it has been from someone from the "Burgh".

The "you should live where you work" line has come full circle.

Be careful what you wish for... and sometimes you get even with yourselves.

I don't understand the Pittsburgh bashers. I find it quite a nice community when I have been there.

Maybe you might understand PIT bashing when a provincial "Burgher" works with you to your home town but is dense enough to bag on your home town, then asks where you commute from. No apology, no nothing. Just the silence of inserting foot in mouth...duh!

Oh did I mention the only reason they were going was to buy Two Buck Chuck?

I asked someone who commuted TO PIT what the deal was? Their answer was - the "Burghers" didn't travel well - to put it politely.

I also laugh at the "Burghers" bagging on PHX real estate yet are unable to sell their own homes for lack of interest. It's what they're worth when you need to sell them!!!

The world has come into balance again.

For the good people who were nice I wish you good luck.

For those of you who were less than nice then you got what you deserved.

"You should live where you work!"

 

[SparrowHawk]

To tell these folks if they don't like it quit, or just move is is pretty shallow and not well thought out. Some of these folks have been loyal employees for years. I am sorry to see that you are losing an option to work.

What a quaint 1960's Point of View.

Ever stop to think that closing LGA, BOS, PIT was part of the plan? To drive down seniority? Thus lowering costs?

The last time I had a conversation about Loyalty to a company or employees even the Dinosaurs were giggling.

NOBODY CARES! How loyal you are, how long you worked for US, or how long you've lived in your community. To DP, SK & RI you're just so much Sh*t under their feet.

Once you realize this then it gets easier to rearrange your life around what's truly important to you. Not some piss-ant airline run by a pecker-wood like DUI Doug Parker.

 

[LD3]

NOBODY CARES! How loyal you are, how long you worked for US, or how long you've lived in your community. To DP, SK & RI you're just so much Sh*t under their feet.

How true and so sad....loyality can make or break a company....

 

[nycbusdriver]

You can't equate commuting to entitlement. For sure there are those who feel entitled for various reasons. A lot of the argument seems to be predicated on the choice to commute. It is a little deeper than that though. Someone commented about flexibility. That is fine if your company has a strong business plan and believes in the employee enough to allow people to plan ahead. Just because you choose to commute does not mean you want to commute either. Remember, a lot of these folks have family. If you have a husband/wife who has an established job in a certain community and your children are in school, It is not as easy as packing up and moving. Another thing to look at is some folks have a house which may belong to them outright. They may have older relatives that they must take care of. Packing up and moving to another base which may or may not be there next week does not make a lot of economic since for some as well. They said they were not going to close Pittsburgh. Who thought they would ever close New York. Your employees all came from places like Los Angles, Dayton, Winton Salem, Baltimore, San Diego, San Fransisco. Why? Because these were bases for PSA, Piedmont, Allegheny. Management changes, mergers happen, bases close. You can't control that.

To tell these folks if they don't like it quit, or just move is is pretty shallow and not well thought out. Some of these folks have been loyal employees for years. I am sorry to see that you are losing an option to work. I hope you can find a way to mitigate the loss without too much sacrifice. Yes, employees of any job has to have flexibility. It will be up to the individual to decide their next move. I don't understand the Pittsburgh bashers. I find it quite a nice community when I have been there. This is where US Airways got it's start so there is some since of pride for these folks as well not to be mistaken for entitlement.

Every crew member, but especially those who live in PIT and are almost by definition very senior, knows that crew bases close. To the last man and woman PIT commuter, they have all seen crew bases closed while employed at Allegheny/USAir/US Airways. When the old Piedmont "Mecca," INT/GSO closed, they should have taken the hint. When the old PSA's LAX/SAN/SFO closed, they should have paid attention.

For some reason they always seemed to smugly think that they were immune to such "business decisions." They grew complacent thinking that this particular risk of being a crew member somehow didn't apply to them. When, lo and behold, it DID INDEED apply to them, their cries of "Foul" ring hollow to those of us who have endured base closures before. Too bad; so sad. You get back every ounce of sympathy that you showed us in years past when our bases closed. That process of returned sympathy only had enough oomph to last about 3 and a half seconds.

"But we have roots, and families in school, and relatives to take care of." Been there. Done that. Life in the big leagues certainly does suck sometimes. Buck up like the rest of us had to. Some quit. Some moved. Welcome to the club. In the words of Ferris Bueller: "You're still here? It's over, go home.....GO!"