Pilots Union Puts Arpey on Notice

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Not the "best letter ever written"(Capt. Hill), ............... But (IMHO) It's all Immaterial.

It's shaping up for AA/unions and ESPECIALLY the EMPLOYEES, to be..FINALLY headed towards the BIG..."WWF..SMACKDOWN", and when the dust settles, AA very well could resemble (present) NW, with the exception of SCABS into TUL/AFW.

(Look, I know I'm gonna' catch a bunch of SHET over this remark, but I always call em' as I see Em')

AA will restructure, and a LOT of people (union and non-union) will get furloughed). The(union) survivors will start to see concessions returning as AA emerges "leaner and meaner" I'm not saying AA will wind up in BK(though it might), it's just that AA and the employees have been doing this disfunctional dance for "way to long", and the faster that the Inevitable happens, the better,.................and then everyone can move on"

Shet, it's like putting off, and putting off...going to the "GD"..Dentist to FINALLY have that nasty wisdom tooth extracted.


Bring it on....................get it DONE, ............................and Move On !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Goose]

These idiot pilots are not looking very professional by putting out a poorly worded 'feel pity for me' letter like this. I'm left with the impression they and their so-called leadership aren't much brighter than a run-of-the-mill company stooge.

BTW, our union steward yesterday said 'we' (the twu) won't be supporting the pilots. Is this because the pilots are hostile toward us, or does this mean Little has been bought off again?

 

[1AA]

BTW, our union steward yesterday said 'we' (the twu) won't be supporting the pilots. Is this because the pilots are hostile toward us, or does this mean Little has been bought off again?

Since when does management (TWU/LITTLE) support union strikes?
If the pilots should be successful in pulling a strike off there would have to be no support from the TWU. We would all be home waiting for a resolution. Of course if a strike happens the TWU membership will probably be home without pay while the TWU officers will be collecting a paycheck anyway. Don't worry about that no lockout clause I am sure a side letter will be agreed too before then.

 

[Planesight]

I tend to agree, the public only reads " pilot had to give up meds because of cost cutting." PR disaster. Overall the letter sounds like childish whining, certainly not the tone of professional airmen.

That silence you hear over at APA headquarters is the radicals digging in while the normal pilots take a step back from the ledge. What a disservice to union members. How much does the APA spend on PR?

 

[jimntx]

BTW, our union steward yesterday said 'we' (the twu) won't be supporting the pilots. Is this because the pilots are hostile toward us, or does this mean Little has been bought off again?

And, here you have the real reason why unions have become all but useless in the U.S today. When I was growing up in Birmingham in the 50's when Birmingham was still a major coal, iron, and steel center, NO union, regardless of political persuasion, craft, or industry, would even think of crossing another union's picket line.

The unions today have become infected with the attitude prevalent in the U.S. population in general. "It's all about me." "We, the (fill in the blank) union, support and stand shoulder to shoulder with our union brothers in the (fill in another blank) union in their conflict with the company (as long as it doesn't require us to do anything, cost us a dime, or inconvenience us in anyway)." "I would love to help you, but I don't want to." (courtesy of Phoebe on Friends)

Now, back to your regular programming.

 

[Bagbelt]

Histoically the pilots have not been there for anyone. Not putting them down, but with the exception of Eastern when have the pilots walked in conjunction with anyone? The company has allways started negotiations with a wish list, this time will be no different. As bad as the cuts have been, to them it's just a number on a spread sheet. To allways be driven down as far as possible. That's business. The union will go in with their own proposals, which will be rejected out of hand. Hopefully the business climate at the time of settlement will help us. However, even if we got all holidays, sick time etc. back, A 1-2% pay increase per year now at 12 years and going will make any company "concessions" moot. Any concessions given the union have allready been paid for.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Not the "best letter ever written"(Capt. Hill), ............... But (IMHO) It's all Immaterial.

It's shaping up for AA/unions and ESPECIALLY the EMPLOYEES, to be..FINALLY headed towards the BIG..."WWF..SMACKDOWN", and when the dust settles, AA very well could resemble (present) NW, with the exception of SCABS into TUL/AFW.

(Look, I know I'm gonna' catch a bunch of SHET over this remark, but I always call em' as I see Em')

AA will restructure, and a LOT of people (union and non-union) will get furloughed). The(union) survivors will start to see concessions returning as AA emerges "leaner and meaner" I'm not saying AA will wind up in BK(though it might), it's just that AA and the employees have been doing this disfunctional dance for "way to long", and the faster that the Inevitable happens, the better,.................and then everyone can move on"

Shet, it's like putting off, and putting off...going to the "GD"..Dentist to FINALLY have that nasty wisdom tooth extracted.
Bring it on....................get it DONE, ............................and Move On !!!!!!!!!!!

The song and dance should have stopped long ago, however it is the strong AA unions that believed in the stupid "win together slogan" we all see who won!!! Now you are facing the same battles, the employees should have told them to start with, if you want something from us, go to the BK court to get it. . . . This will be a major fight, and if AA gives even 15% of what its union members want, they will end up in BK..

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

The song and dance should have stopped long ago, however it is the strong AA unions that believed in the stupid "win together slogan" we all see who won!!! Now you are facing the same battles, the employees should have told them to start with, if you want something from us, go to the BK court to get it. . . . This will be a major fight, and if AA gives even 15% of what its union members want, they will end up in BK..

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"Beauty",

3 answers.

1. Your "dead on" about...."this should have been dealt with long ago.

2. I'd say, as of today, that AA WILL run into BK.

3. With regard to number (2), I say, if it's inevitable.....GOOD, "BRING IT ON"

 

[StraaightTaalk]

`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

"Beauty",

3 answers.

1. Your "dead on" about...."this should have been dealt with long ago.

2. I'd say, as of today, that AA WILL run into BK.

3. With regard to number (2), I say, if it's inevitable.....GOOD, "BRING IT ON"

And we'll use the money saved as a result BK to buy pieces of UA on the chopping block.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

"S T",

With the China routes(probably 3, 4 max., most likely from ORD/JFK) virtually "in the bag" within about 4 years) UAL has very little, IMHO that I'd want.(save their LAX/SYD-AKL route, and perhaps 2-4 747-400's)

As the GREAT Bob Dylan said years ago...."The times...they are a changin' "

 

[StraaightTaalk]

"S T",

With the China routes(probably 3, 4 max., most likely from ORD/JFK) virtually "in the bag" within about 4 years) UAL has very little, IMHO that I'd want.(save their LAX/SYD-AKL route, and perhaps 2-4 747-400's)

As the GREAT Bob Dylan said years ago...."The times...they are a changin' "

True, there is very little that they have that we would want. Their 747s are, for the most part, ancient; their routes to Europe can be flown by virtually anybody in the new Open Skies environment; Asia (ie China) is opening up to us; Australia/New Zealand, as we found out, is a largely leisure market subject to fare suppression (especially with the advent of the new Jetstar airline); their facilities at ORD and LAX nothing to write home about; and their grim employees bitter and disgruntled. But, since everything, according to Tilton, is on the chopping block, I could see us purchasing slots from them, in such places as LHR and ORD. IAD offers us nothing; too close to NY. DEN is a possibility but I don't see us going there with the low-fare Frontier setting the fares unrealistically low out of that city.

The UA employees I know are convinced this is the way it's going to go with UA sold as a whole or in pieces. They all have second jobs as insurance against the inevitable as they see it. As Tilton has pointed out, though, the sum of the parts is equal to more than the whole. Perhaps he will sell key assets in conjunction with a merger in an effort to get around any anti-trust considerations.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

True, there is very little that they have that we would want. Their 747s are, for the most part, ancient; their routes to Europe can be flown by virtually anybody in the new Open Skies environment; Asia (ie China) is opening up to us; Australia/New Zealand, as we found out, is a largely leisure market subject to fare suppression (especially with the advent of the new Jetstar airline); their facilities at ORD and LAX nothing to write home about; and their grim employees bitter and disgruntled. But, since everything, according to Tilton, is on the chopping block, I could see us purchasing slots from them, in such places as LHR and ORD. IAD offers us nothing; too close to NY. DEN is a possibility but I don't see us going there with the low-fare Frontier setting the fares unrealistically low out of that city.

The UA employees I know are convinced this is the way it's going to go with UA sold as a whole or in pieces. They all have second jobs as insurance against the inevitable as they see it. As Tilton has pointed out, though, the sum of the parts is equal to more than the whole. Perhaps he will sell key assets in conjunction with a merger in an effort to get around any anti-trust considerations.

Looks like someone is bitter at the suggestion of AA going into BK... I bet the TWAers are kicking back right now saying, "we told you, what goes around comes around" StrAAight, this time you will feel the heat... I don't wish ill will... You shouldn't make bad waves, who knows we may be picking up your pieces, especially after we sell off maint. and MP, we will have 11 billion in the bank... I have seen stranger things. I wouldn't put the cart before the horse, you will be eating crow for a long long time... And we are just at the appetizer course right now... BTW China isn't the only part of Asia, we serve many intra Asia routes, you have a LONG game of catch up to play, and we all know how hard that is...

 

[The Goose]

`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

"Beauty",

3 answers.

1. Your "dead on" about...."this should have been dealt with long ago.

2. I'd say, as of today, that AA WILL run into BK.

3. With regard to number (2), I say, if it's inevitable.....GOOD, "BRING IT ON"

Doubtful AA will consider BK - threaten, yes, but actually consider, no.

Why would they want to give a judge control over their $6 billion in cash in the more restrictive scenarios due to the changed BK laws (Oct 2005)?

Bankruptcy isn't quite the magic bullet it was 2 years ago. Some of the legal opinions I've read opined if a corp. filed for reoganization (chapter 11) under the revised law, there was a much better chance it wouldn't emerge, but liquidate due to the additional restrictions. Doubtful the whiz kids will go that route, but that's not to say the company and union won't begin spreading misinformation as they typically do.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Looks like someone is bitter at the suggestion of AA going into BK... I bet the TWAers are kicking back right now saying, "we told you, what goes around comes around" StrAAight, this time you will feel the heat... I don't wish ill will... You shouldn't make bad waves, who knows we may be picking up your pieces, especially after we sell off maint. and MP, we will have 11 billion in the bank... I have seen stranger things. I wouldn't put the cart before the horse, you will be eating crow for a long long time... And we are just at the appetizer course right now... BTW China isn't the only part of Asia, we serve many intra Asia routes, you have a LONG game of catch up to play, and we all know how hard that is...

UA is on the chopping block. Tilton has one goal in mind...to increase shareholder value. The "For sale" sign is out front, and it is up to the employees at this time to start thinking about Plan A and Plan B. Do you remain on the Titanic (Plan A), or go with one of the pieces (Plan B ), as the Eastern employees who went with Trump Shuttle did?

A company doesn't just put it "out there" that they are interested in "burning the furniture" unless some serious decisions have already been made at the top.

UA is worth more in pieces, and a fragmented UA will make a merger more palatable to the government.

UA is one big garage sale.

I am sure we will be hiriing and UA employees can always interview with AA, but we will be checking for "UA attitude." No doubt, AA will try to put into place a new form of B-scale before they start hiring again, and this will fund the expansion. I may not agree with AA management, but they are not dumb.

 

[The Goose]

I may not agree with AA management, but they are not dumb.

Consider - a little bit of honesty from the elite would have gone a long way in preventing much of the ill-will many have now toward both union and company, that is, IF said ill-will wasn't welcomed.

.