Pilots Slam AA With New Billboard

[MCI transplant]

This from the guy who hates AA and thinks TWA could do no wrong. Go shovel your "stuff" somewhere else.

<_< IORFA------ You don't have a clue do you? :down:

 

[The Goose]

Well we see all the management fans out here blasting the APA campaign. "Stupid", suicidal etc etc. Well actually its a very good move to pressure management. By revealing the bungling of management and the resulting "bad press" it puts pressure on management, the owners are more likely to replace them if they feel this stuff threatens their intrests. "You hold a gun to our heads we hold one to yours". "You make threats to our job, we threaten yours." For the owners of AA its very easy to clean up the companies image, fire those in control and give awy a few more cheap seats. However management will be the ones looking for a job with a very public failure on their resumes.

Bob, I'd really be nice if things worked your way, but ...

The majority owners could care less as long as AMR continues to help make them profitable. How that's accomplished is still a mystery to me as one of the larger funds (FMR - Fidelity) added another 2% stake in AMR to its portfolio while the asset's (AMR's) value was declining. FMR doesn't seem to be as pissed as FL was about the decliining value of their assets as their collection of AMR stock has grown (now at approx 12% of the company if I've read the SEC documents correctly, up from 10%) but I've been told by a most knowledgable cubicle denizen who posts on this site how wrong my personal theory is.

Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours - that game always takes precedence over good business practices - "I'll support your way of doing business as long as you'll cover my losses".

 

[MCI transplant]

Bob, I'd really be nice if things worked your way, but ...

The majority owners could care less as long as AMR continues to help make them profitable. How that's accomplished is still a mystery to me as one of the larger funds (FMR - Fidelity) added another 2% stake in AMR to its portfolio while the asset's (AMR's) value was declining. FMR doesn't seem to be as pissed as FL was about the decliining value of their assets as their collection of AMR stock has grown (now at approx 12% of the company if I've read the SEC documents correctly, up from 10%) but I've been told by a most knowledgable cubicle denizen who posts on this site how wrong my personal theory is.

Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours - that game always takes precedence over good business practices - "I'll support your way of doing business as long as you'll cover my losses".

<_< ------ Unfortunately, that is how most of the world is run these days! :down:

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Bob, I'd really be nice if things worked your way, but ...

The majority owners could care less as long as AMR continues to help make them profitable. How that's accomplished is still a mystery to me as one of the larger funds (FMR - Fidelity) added another 2% stake in AMR to its portfolio while the asset's (AMR's) value was declining. FMR doesn't seem to be as pissed as FL was about the decliining value of their assets as their collection of AMR stock has grown (now at approx 12% of the company if I've read the SEC documents correctly, up from 10%) but I've been told by a most knowledgable cubicle denizen who posts on this site how wrong my personal theory is.

Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours - that game always takes precedence over good business practices - "I'll support your way of doing business as long as you'll cover my losses".

I support the cubicle denizen. They're just bulking up to hide the losses

In any event, the stockholder's meeting is just around the corner and this board cannot hide the fact that, through their blessings, the current heiarchy of AMR has caused the stock to loose right at 80% of it's value in the past year.

That's not good in case you didn't know, and investors aren't inclined to be too happy about it. Most are hanging in there not because they trust the current management's know-how (which is clearly lacking) but because they hope to eventually recoup their loses and end up at a break even point where they can jump ship.

And Jump they will !!

 

[FWAAA]

I support the cubicle denizen. They're just bulking up to hide the losses

Not so fast, Wing - the reference to "cubicle denzien" is to me, and these two posts in particular:

There is shareholder activism, but unfortunately not enough. AMR is, by large, institutionally owned (funds, etc.) As long as shares are issued to them at the time of the executive bonuses in order to keep their respective NAVs from tanking due to the share price dilution caused, all is cool - take care of the majority shareholders and the BOD will stay in place guaranteeing more of the same. Watch the SEC website for the ownership reporting (I believe SEC form 13D) of additional shares at the end of the 2nd quarter, around 30 June.

The bolded portion is nonsense. Nothing but gibberish.

I've looked at the filings under Rule 13 and find no issuance of new shares to anyone other than the lucky 847 or so PUP/PSP execs.

Care to provide a link to a single filing supporting the nonsensical bolded portion?

Not only have no new shares been issued to any funds (contrary to your claim), but the premise makes no sense. The PUP/PSP shares issued to the execs have been too few to matter to Vanguard's or Fidelity's net asset values.

With gibberish like your bolded portion, it's no wonder the company and the TWU have had no problems continually oppressing you.

Both were in this thread: http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40459

The Goose alleges that AMR the stock fairy has handed the mutual funds more shares at the same time as the PUP/PSP payouts.

I have no idea why the mutual funds keep buying more, but The Goose is alleging that AMR and Fidelity (as well as Vanguard and others) are in a vast conspiracy to commit fraud.

In any event, the stockholder's meeting is just around the corner and this board cannot hide the fact that, through their blessings, the current heiarchy of AMR has caused the stock to loose right at 80% of it's value in the past year.

That's not good in case you didn't know, and investors aren't inclined to be too happy about it. Most are hanging in there not because they trust the current management's know-how (which is clearly lacking) but because they hope to eventually recoup their loses and end up at a break even point where they can jump ship.

And Jump they will !!

Management "caused" the stock to drop by 80% since last January? If that's true, then I'd sue them.

 

[The Goose]

I support the cubicle denizen. They're just bulking up to hide the losses

In any event, the stockholder's meeting is just around the corner and this board cannot hide the fact that, through their blessings, the current heiarchy of AMR has caused the stock to loose right at 80% of it's value in the past year.

That's not good in case you didn't know, and investors aren't inclined to be too happy about it. Most are hanging in there not because they trust the current management's know-how (which is clearly lacking) but because they hope to eventually recoup their loses and end up at a break even point where they can jump ship.

And Jump they will !!

It's doubtful they'll jump ship. More likely a number of votes against current BOD members in hopes of getting rid of the Sears mentality and start running AMR as a real business entity rather than an executive piggy bank.

Brennen was the CEO of Sears when it tanked; Philip Purcel (married to Ann McNamara, an AMR corporate attorney) was on the Sears BOD as was Micheal Miles. These and a few others of like mind could go away with no ill effects, that is, unless ...

A "Say On Pay" was brought up and almost (40% pro) enacted at last year's annual meeting. Perhaps there'll be some movement this time around.

By the way - FWAAA is not nor ever has been employed by American Airlines nor AMR Corp. (by his/her own admission). He's/she's simply a left coast troll that has nothing better to do with his/her time than harrass airline mechanics while he's/she's (Its?) on someone elses dime at work.

 

[IORFA]

Actually Bill likes AA, thinks well of its operation and has never said TWA could do no wrong.
Your ignorance of my position and total misquote suggests you are just shoveling stuff. My disgust was aimed at APA, not AA as is clearly evident in my post. It appears you cannot even read posts accurately.

That is funny considering that you rarely/if ever say anything positive about APA, APFA or the TWU. Yes you like AA as long as they let you travel for free and continue your pension check and medical benefits. The above mentioned unions ARE AA. Most of us are tired of your continued drivel about how your wife was wronged. Move on all ready. She is back working on reserve bringing home the bacon to your dilusioned household. Be happy that you have a second income and quit complaining that all the other workers shouldn't try to better their situation. Maybe your 1950's mindset is a little behind the new negotiating times!! A little news flash, NO job at an airline, be it pilot, F/A, AMT etc., is as "glamorous" as it used to be and never will be again. So quit acting like it is.

 

[eolesen]

Why is it one never hears this from customers doing mulit million dollar management bonus time?

Because customers on this forum are a rare thing? The way some of you respond, it's no wonder:

By the way - FWAAA is not nor ever has been employed by American Airlines nor AMR Corp. (by his/her own admission). He's/she's simply a left coast troll that has nothing better to do with his/her time than harrass airline mechanics while he's/she's (Its?) on someone elses dime

As for your original question "why is it one never hears this from customers during bonus time"...

Perhaps y'all are too wrapped up in your own rage or self-pity to realize that both FWAAA and I have spoken out about the bonuses for the past three years.

The rest of the customers probably don't care who gets bonuses or whose pay was cut. I don't know how much the person at Walmart, Starbucks, or Chilis makes, I don't know how much their execs make, and quite frankly, I don't really care. That's between them and their employer.


Despite all the hand-wringing this billboard is supposed to engender, I can't recall having had a single flight canceled by AA in the past three years, and only a handful were delayed, all but two of them by less than an hour, and the other two were due to a blizzard at ORD, which is hardly AA's fault. Maybe I'm just lucky....

 

[ual777fan]

By the way - FWAAA is not nor ever has been employed by American Airlines nor AMR Corp. (by his/her own admission). He's/she's simply a left coast troll that has nothing better to do with his/her time than harrass airline mechanics while he's/she's (Its?) on someone elses dime at work.

Hey, hey now... As passengers (FWAAA, eolesen, ual777fan) who generally buy the expensive tickets that pay the bills, and who have lots of friends who work in and around the industry, we deserve to have our voices heard.

 

[IORFA]

Who cares about the billboard? I mean great if you like it, great if you think it is stupid. Most people could care less. If you think APA is shooting themselves in the foot, good for them and move on. If you think APA is on to something that will help them out in negotiations, good for them and move on. I would venture to say that the vast majority of hits their site has received are from people that work for AA or in the industry. Most pax could care less, especially if they realize that siding with the union/any union might take more money out of their pocket. Everybody wants everything for free. Not realistic, but we can hope. This billboard is nothing more than a PR move. Good or Bad, people are talking about it. AA might think it is childish and an ameuturish(sic) design, but it gets people and the media talking. For how long? Who knows.

 

[sarah warner]

I am sorry to see the billboard. I fly a lot and AA has made me feel safe with professional pilots. We are in a recession, people are losing jobs, and I would like to see AA management and pilots work it all out. In our homes and businesses we have to watch our spending. I hope the AA pilots understand this. I see where pilots are told to fly safely..they should also be safe as far as being responsible and not asking for what is unreasonable in these hard times. Customers feel better flying with an airline that has employees that are not fighting with management and not hanging out their dirty underwear for all to see.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

I am sorry to see the billboard. I fly a lot and AA has made me feel safe with professional pilots. We are in a recession, people are losing jobs, and I would like to see AA management and pilots work it all out. In our homes and businesses we have to watch our spending. I hope the AA pilots understand this. I see where pilots are told to fly safely..they should also be safe as far as being responsible and not asking for what is unreasonable in these hard times. Customers feel better flying with an airline that has employees that are not fighting with management and not hanging out their dirty underwear for all to see.

Actually, customers feel better flying with an airline that will sell them a coast to coast RT ticket for prices cheaper than Grayhound, and allow them to carry all the luggage they want. They couldn't care less about what it takes to get them there.

This, is all but fact etched in stone.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Ok, I've now read everything I can get my hands on in the press, etc., regarding this action and I can unequivocally say that I believe what the pilot's union has done here constitutes one of the most childish actions I have ever witnessed a professional organization doing.

This billboard was uncalled for. I further personally believe that it constitutes libel in the grandest of fashion. The pilots union is clearly trying to pull the public into a disagreement, nay, battle, that has really yet to get started. It is like the pilot's union is saying to AA - look what we will do, look at what lengths we will go.

This is not the way to conduct a negotiation. I realize that AA is being just as childish with their website regarding employee negotiations, but their website was designed to prevent disinformation. Whether it succeds to that end or not isn't for me to say since I don't bother reading it (it being one sided and all) but the pilots union has gone off the deep end with this one. It will cause problems and it will be the pilots who will ultimately pay for the actions of their labor organization.

Gawd, it isn't even funny, at least it could have been funny!

 

[L1011Ret]

That is funny considering that you rarely/if ever say anything positive about APA, APFA or the TWU. Yes you like AA as long as they let you travel for free and continue your pension check and medical benefits. The above mentioned unions ARE AA. Most of us are tired of your continued drivel about how your wife was wronged. Move on all ready. She is back working on reserve bringing home the bacon to your dilusioned household. Be happy that you have a second income and quit complaining that all the other workers shouldn't try to better their situation. Maybe your 1950's mindset is a little behind the new negotiating times!! A little news flash, NO job at an airline, be it pilot, F/A, AMT etc., is as "glamorous" as it used to be and never will be again. So quit acting like it is.

As usual you invent and falsify information. It is an outright falsehood that I receive a pension check from AA. It is an outright lie that I receive medical benefits from AA. PROVIDE EVIDENCE! PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!! PROVE TO US YOU ARE NOT A LIAR!

 

[FurloughedByAPFA]

Yawn.

Yawn.

Sorry - other yawns make me yawn!