Not quite understanding

[Bob Owens]

Like the other poster...please do not even try to consider your pay third world. Last time I checked...the "average" pay for American Airlines pilots is over $130,000...I would love to know how many pilots live in Colleyville or Southlake (very upscale towns in the DFW area). Also, if you consider what the APA is doing as "good faith bargaining" you are sadly mistaken. A bargaining table is one where one side provides a "realistic" (ie not 50%+ raise and 6%+ per year after and super bowl sunday as a holiday) offer and then actually negotiates from there, not simply say this is what we want and will not take anything less...I dont think I missed that class in college

How come a 50% pay raise is unreasonable but a 50% paycut isnt? After all in certain situations a 50% paycut is a lot bigger than a 50% payraise.

If you are making $10/hr and you take a 50% paycut your new rate of pay would be $5/hr, if you then demanded a 50% pay raise it would only bring you up to $7.50, which is still 50% below what you originally had, and thats not even factoring in inflation.

6% per year is simply a maintenance rate-it simply maintains your buying power against inflation.

not simply say this is what we want and will not take anything less...I dont think I missed that class in college

Management redefined "negotiations" in 2003. If you dont like the new definition blame them.

Restore and more.

 

[slupilot01]

I could be wrong but I don't think Slupilot cares? He just sees fares going up and wants it to stop no matter what. :blink: All people in America care about today is themselves. They just don't understand that it's all interwined. If we can't afford to purchase there goods and services then they can't afford to fly on our airplanes. Math 101 :huh:

Believe me, I do care. I understand why fares are going up, but the basic question still exists...if passengers bring in the money, why put up billboards to scare them away from flying your airline? That is the question of confusion on my part.

 

[WeAAsles]

Believe me, I do care. I understand why fares are going up, but the basic question still exists...if passengers bring in the money, why put up billboards to scare them away from flying your airline? That is the question of confusion on my part.

Ok Slupilot, whats the alternative then? You tell me how we should get there attention? These are not people that live in the real world like you and I. If there bottom line isn't hurt they don't even notice you exist. And that goes for passengers as well as labor. Maybe you work for a small co. where you still have a name? At the end of the day our employee #'s in a large co. are just part #'s to them. They move and replace them as they see fit. We ARE NOT people to them at all. So again what would you do?

 

[3DUB]

Like the other poster...please do not even try to consider your pay third world. Last time I checked...the "average" pay for American Airlines pilots is over $130,000...I would love to know how many pilots live in Colleyville or Southlake (very upscale towns in the DFW area). Also, if you consider what the APA is doing as "good faith bargaining" you are sadly mistaken. A bargaining table is one where one side provides a "realistic" (ie not 50%+ raise and 6%+ per year after and super bowl sunday as a holiday) offer and then actually negotiates from there, not simply say this is what we want and will not take anything less...I dont think I missed that class in college

YEAH....The reason they can live there is because they used to average more then that! I can't blame them, I want my lifestle back also! I don't live in Colleywood, or Snotlake,but I'm not far from it and is really hard to make ends meet. It wasn't like that before they ROBBED US! I wish the twSCREW would do something like this! But hey, We are just the LAPDOG!

 

[Little Jimmy]

If the company would just engage in for real good faith bargaining than none of this would be happening. I don't think anyone really wants to bite the hand that feeds them but the dog can only survive on biscuits for so long. Look if you want these people to just sit back and except there lot in life it just isn't happening. We as union Americans and people too shouldn't have to subsidise everyone else. The public, the execs and Wall Street (look whats happening there due to greed) can't keep expecting us to except Third World Pay!!!!!

Third world pay is right! You better get a pint of Guiness to wash down that dog biscuit, while you can still afford to buy Guiness!
When I'm through negotiating you'll be lucky you can afford the swill they serve down at the Big Apple Cafe...or good old Sidetracks back in Sunnyside ( oh no I'm Irish!)

 

[The Goose]

If you want to talk about Third World salaries, just go ask your child's teacher how much they make, and ask them how many hours per month they work (try a LOT more than a pilot).

This statement paints you as a person that doesn't have a clue - quit trying to insinuate that you're a pilot. You aren't if you say things like this.

Group: Registered Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29-February 08
Member No.: 14,014

This is you - how does the company pay its trolls?

And if your kids happen to go to a Catholic school, the salary will be even lower than the public school teacher. Good luck trying to convince those teachers/police officers/firemen/etc. that they need to fork over more money than they already are because the pilots want a 50% raise and 6% per year after that and a paid Super Bowl sunday.

The Superbowl Sunday is a bit of a stretch - when I first saw it, I considered it as comedy. Get a life.

As far as the billboards are concerned, it's rather a question of ethics - the 'nads to put up a sign stating Redding's attitude - safety is secondary.

 

[frontline]

These billboards tell me that APA has gone totally off the rails. Alienating customers will not help its cause in the long run. If they would use their resources to work out a deal with the company instead of harassing Ft. Worth drivers, everyone (especially the pilots) would be better off.

 

[slupilot01]

Ok Slupilot, whats the alternative then? You tell me how we should get there attention? These are not people that live in the real world like you and I. If there bottom line isn't hurt they don't even notice you exist. And that goes for passengers as well as labor. Maybe you work for a small co. where you still have a name? At the end of the day our employee #'s in a large co. are just part #'s to them. They move and replace them as they see fit. We ARE NOT people to them at all. So again what would you do?

While some may consider this too naive, what about talking about the money aspects of the company? In the past few months, executive compensation has become a very big issue, both on local as well as national levels. The 'golden parachute' has become a bit of a household name for many companies...even after they are being liquidated and doors closing for good (ie Fannie May/Freddie Mac/Lehman Brothers). Many people are becoming much more aware of how executives will still come out millions of dollars ahead, while everyone else in the company either loses everything (stock options, salary, etc). Why feel the need to attack the safety record (at least with the public)? I would think that would be best done through the FAA or some other avenue, but thats just my thought.

And to the poster that thinks im not a pilot, not everyone needs to be a company pounding pilot to be one. Pilots can be just as much of a union hater as well as a "management" hater.

 

[slupilot01]

Group: Registered Member
Posts: 14
Joined: 29-February 08
Member No.: 14,014

This is you - how does the company pay its trolls?
[/quote]


What does this have to do with anything? However, it is a little flattering that I have a stalker out there now...

 

[tfc767]

I'll take a crack at this but it's gonna generate the usual pro management b.s. that most folks on this board promote.

What you see with these billboards is nothing more than the APA taking a hard stance with how low this company has stooped, regarding cost cutting with maintenance/customer service, while at the same time rewarding the top managers with millions in bonuses for FAILURES. We want to make our passengers aware that, while safety is NOT being compromised in any way shape or form, they (the customers) need to make AMR management aware of their shortcomings as well. Otherwise the airline will not change.

I have news for you - if AMR doesn't change their ways, this airline will fail anyway. If AMR doesn't change, they will drive their own passengers away - in fact it's happening right now. So don't blame the pilots, or FAs or whoever for this migration away from AA - THEY THEMSELVES are doing it through their cost cutting practices. As Gordon Bethune once claimed, you can make a pizza so cheap that no one wants to eat it.

So that's why you see these billboards... we are not trying to put AA out of business, if that happens they themselves are responsible for it. We just want to make the traveling public aware that, if they want better service, they need to address the leadership of this airline to make the type of changes necessary to make it a better airline. Case in point, right after the MD80 fleet grounding last spring, EVERY eligible executive gladly took their PUP payout. For what? For inconveniencing thousands of passengers over maintenance shortcomings? I mean, is it that hard to understand? Do you want us just to sit quietly and not make a fuss just because we have jobs and are afraid to rock the boat?

This is not rocket science, folks.

 

[Hopeful]

While some may consider this too naive, what about talking about the money aspects of the company? In the past few months, executive compensation has become a very big issue, both on local as well as national levels. The 'golden parachute' has become a bit of a household name for many companies...even after they are being liquidated and doors closing for good (ie Fannie May/Freddie Mac/Lehman Brothers). Many people are becoming much more aware of how executives will still come out millions of dollars ahead, while everyone else in the company either loses everything (stock options, salary, etc). Why feel the need to attack the safety record (at least with the public)? I would think that would be best done through the FAA or some other avenue, but thats just my thought.

You're kidding, right?
Executives could care less what the lowly employee thinks, let alone the flying public.
They believe they are in the upper class of society because of the degree they may hold, or simply the position they occupy. They don't care how difficult it is for employees after the concessions that were force fed.
As for your FAA comment, only until recently with respect to SWA, the FAA has turned the other cheek because of their relationship with airlines. How can you expect an agency to enforce and ensure air safety at the same time promoting the airline industry without causing any expense to the airlines.

 

[slupilot01]

You're kidding, right?
Executives could care less what the lowly employee thinks, let alone the flying public.
They believe they are in the upper class of society because of the degree they may hold, or simply the position they occupy. They don't care how difficult it is for employees after the concessions that were force fed.
As for your FAA comment, only until recently with respect to SWA, the FAA has turned the other cheek because of their relationship with airlines. How can you expect an agency to enforce and ensure air safety at the same time promoting the airline industry without causing any expense to the airlines.

I actually wasnt thinking the billboards are directed at the executives, but rather trying to make the flying public aware, due to the fact that a previous poster commented that simple airport picketing doesnt seem to make the "average" passenger aware or want to care what is going on. So I understand it is a different way to make the average passenger aware to what some people in the company are doing to the "average" worker. Believe me, I am a very lowly administrator (which I use extremely loosely). I am myself trying to make ends meat some months as the costs of food, fuel, home energy, etc continue to go higher and higher, but I am in no way trying to say that I sympathize with the cuts that were taken and the, many times, very drastic measures that families had to take. I am merely trying to get a better understanding to the union (not specifically pilots, but in the billboard case, yes) mindset. I didnt grow up with union parents so I wasnt always exposed to that side of the working world. I will admit that when it comes to unions, I am not very versed in what is the "norm," especially with contract negotiations. I also know that I didnt start the thread off on the right tone, so I definitely got a blasting that I deserved, but I also appreciate the more calm, sensible postings. While I may not always agree with what a union (not specifically the APA, APFA, or any other airline union alphabet soup organization) does, I do like to understand where it is coming from.