PHX Mtx to go 5 & 2

[WNjetdoc]

So the East has the same deal as WN. Do I understand correctly that you work two doubles (16hrs) and then come in for 4 more and are off the rest of the week?

WN does not do that as a scheduled shift. We have the 5 on 2 off and the 4 on 3 off. The 4 on 3 off is RON shift and they work a 10 hr day. The rest of us work a 8.5 hr day.

There are a few odd shifts here and there and some rotating shifts, but the vast majority are the two mentioned above.

We have no limit on our daytrades, (swaps). We have quite a few guys that live in other states and they do 4 or 5 doubles, then they are off for 9 or 10 days as their daytrade buddy is working for them.

There are a couple of guys that do a 16hr, (days/eves), off 8hrs,(sleep in a hole at work), then do a 24hr, (days,eves,Ron). So these guys are at work for 2 days solid, (except for the 8 they rack somewhere), then off for 5 days straight.

I personally do the M-F 8 hrs a day deal, very bland, very dry, yes I know.

 

[Awa Contract]

Eric the company works us 24 hours + straight through all the time when we are on road trips. In fact MTC can get quite shotty (o=i) when you tell them you are going to the hotel. I have had them call the hotel and change my wake up call time to make sure that I only had 8 hours off the aircraft and not 8 hours of sleep.

 

[High Iron]

Personally working a 16 hour day is asking for disaster. It's hard to believe that the Union, Company or even the FAA would allow anyone performing maintenance on an aircraft to exceed even 12 hours. The risk to personal safety and the safety of passengers can not be taken lightly. It's kinda like drinking alcohol. The more your drink the less common sense you have. The more you work past a certain threshold the less alert and the more prone to mistakes you become. I certainely wouldn't want to fly on an aircraft where a mechanic fixing the aircraft just finished a 16 hour day. It's just not reasonable to think a 16 hour day is just another day at work.

I agree 100 percent with your post's content, especially the last sentence. ( it's 17 hours in reality...and it's just nuts ) Some subscribe to the rationalization that whatever fattens your wallet more trumps all other concerns, but I don't buy it. As far as trades/swaps, I see little value in an extra day off if the price means being a zombie. Graveyard shift has a deleterious enough effect on normal life as it is, and I sure as hell don't need even MORE time away from living. Amongst many I work with, I am by no means alone in my sentiments. As the saying goes, "A professional can do some his best work when he doesn't feel like it" and that's true, but I think it's not a good idea to purposely "test" that theory.

I can guarantee you that on my last day on this earth, any list of laments will NOT include having NOT worked MORE hours...........

 

[midnightmech]

how many in your station commute to there domicle( home) due to bumps/furlough/station closing/etc.? 10%...15%....25%...? You cant always sell and move- when the station your working at may be the next to close/"right-size". An extra day off makes it somewhat tolerable...Flight crews working a 12-16 hr day is common due to the way this business operates. you dont understand that? And you westies working 24 hr shifts, 6 swaps for 9 days off...that all died a long time ago....lol...but I remember when....

 

[allstrike]

how many in your station commute to there domicle( home) due to bumps/furlough/station closing/etc.? 10%...15%....25%...? You cant always sell and move- when the station your working at may be the next to close/"right-size". An extra day off makes it somewhat tolerable...Flight crews working a 12-16 hr day is common due to the way this business operates. you dont understand that? And you westies working 24 hr shifts, 6 swaps for 9 days off...that all died a long time ago....lol...but I remember when....

Bring back paid rest and double time.
Ride the train baby....lol

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Ok Eric,

Show us a study that proves AMTs do poor work when working more than 8 hours?

What about a AMT that was up all night with a sick child and only works 8 hours, how will his job performance be?

Everyone should take the personal responsibility of knowing when fatigue is setting in. Everyone has a different threshold 700. Statistics bearout that mistakes increase exponentially and productivity declines exponentially as the workday grows longer. A 16 hour or 24 hour day is asking for trouble period. Anyone with a bit of common sense will avoid arguing that a 16 or 24 hour workday is just hunky dory. Lives of other people are in mechanics hands and working 16 hours or more is just not the smart thing to do for the majority of people.

One of the posts mentions pulling 24 hours shifts. This is insane and I would not want to fly on an aircraft where one or more mechanics had worked 24 hours straight. No one in the right mind would gleefully hop on an aircraft in such a situation. Ask the flying public how willing they would be to fly on an aircraft that just had an engine or flight control actuator repaired by a mechanic who busted their butt for 24 hours to get the aircraft fixed.

AWA Contract mentioned being manipulated to work well past 16 hours. If the union won't back up a mechanic to say..."you know what, enough is enough and this just isn't safe" Then they aren't doing their job period.

Safety must come first. Forget about fat paychecks, or feeling the pressure from management to get an aircraft back on the schedule. The stakes are too high.

I'm surprised the FAA or Media isn't in tune with this potential threat to the flying public. The FAA in particular since that is their job. They are so concerned and ready to fine an airline for not complying with a modification but they are willing to turn their head for an airline allowing mechanics to work 24 hours straight!? Ludicrous and Criminal.

 

[700UW]

Funny how you ignore you take flights with flight crews on duty for 12 or more hours.

Don't have a problem with that?

And in those 16 hour days for AMTs, how many hours are spent actually working?

Guess you did not factor that in either.

 

[allstrike]

Speaking with a couple of key people today, management discussed the 5/2 at the afternoon meeting. It's not going to happen (at least this year).

What is going to happen will involve the sups. The sups which are on a 4/4 are going to a set 4/3, just like the techs. They say this will happen the first of the year (yeah, right) due to vacation bids/tracks already filled out and approved.

Will see which happens first, the sups changing or our TA!

Just curious are the sup's contract or salary.Are they being brought into the union in any postion,say lead mech like we have on the east.Whats going on with negotiations in these regards. :blink: :blink: :blink:
Were in the dark over here again...

over here=east
out there=west lol

 

[awausairtech]

Just curious are the sup's contract or salary.Are they being brought into the union in any position,say lead mech like we have on the east.Whats going on with negotiations in these regards. :blink: :blink: :blink:
Were in the dark over here again...

over here=east
out there=west lol

HE11 son its the blind leading the blind what a dust Storm!!LOL

 

[allstrike]

HE11 son its the blind leading the blind what a dust Storm!!LOL

I couldnt put it any better

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Funny how you ignore you take flights with flight crews on duty for 12 or more hours.

Don't have a problem with that?

And in those 16 hour days for AMTs, how many hours are spent actually working?

Guess you did not factor that in either.

Why don't you quit assuming 700. Personally when assigned to a hardbroke aircraft that had to fly the next day lounging around or taking naps was not a personal or professional option. There is a certain amount of pride fixing an aircraft so it can make the schedule whether it be a individual effort or team effort.

I've not commented on flight crews because I haven't walked in their shoes. That being said, a flight crew is a team and mechanics don't always work in teams. Certainely a pilot should not be asked to work 24 hours without crew rest somewhere inbetween :closedeyes: . That goes for FAs to. Some routes require more than 12 hours of duty. Two pilots and multiple FAs on duty doesn't diminish the individual fatigue factor but there could be opportunity to rest while the other team members continue working. Such opportunities may or may not present themselves to mechanics because mechanics don't always work in teams. That being said, a pilot or FA catching a catnap on a 12 plus hour flight doesn't go against personal moral fabric like a mechanic napping on the job would or even a parts clerk. If a sup :cop: gives the okay for a mechanic to take a nap after, 16 hours, or whatever it may be, then maybe this is not an issue B)



You've brought up some good points, but I'm curious...have you ever worked 12 plus or 16 plus hours straight as a mechanic on night shift or any shift for that matter? If the answer to is no, what experience do you have to not have a problem? I've worked supply and was an avionics tech and I can assure you the risk factor for a mishap to occur when working 16 plus hours is much lower for a supply clerk issuing a flight control actuator when compared to a mechanic changing out the same flight control actuator on a passenger aircraft...don't ya think B)

 

[700UW]

I have worked plenty of 16 hour days, combo of all three shifts, I did swaps every week and ot. And on road trips to LGA and other places I have been on duty for 48 hours with sleeping minimum sleep in the sleeper of a truck. Yes I was tired, but driving a truck on the highway at high speeds up and down the East Coast with as much safety as I can, never had a wreck nor an incident.

And like I said, in all my years at US almost 18, never heard of an incident of a mech botching a repair due to fatigue.

And I have seen plenty of mechanics work as a team on a broke airplane.

 

[midnightmech]

good point Piney, except the International, the Locals, and of course, each station does not, will not, wont ever, do anything about anything...there is no form of communication between mechs at each diff station, usually isnt between shifts at the same stations,,,,so once again, NOTHING will happen...as far as a concerted effort to garner managements attention to the problems.....as far as working more than 8-10 hrs,,,, we have all worked 12-16-24-36 or more hours to return an aircraft to revenue service, only it was for a company that appreciated the effort, and no it wasnt always with naps and rest periods...like a MD doing internship and working many days with little rest.....safest? no....but never comprimised the safety of the public or anyone else...remember we and our families fly on this equipment too...would we work like that again? for this team? to "help out"? HELL NO!!!!!

 

[EricLv2Fish]

we have all worked 12-16-24-36 or more hours to return an aircraft to revenue service, only it was for a company that appreciated the effort, and no it wasnt always with naps and rest periods...like a MD doing internship and working many days with little rest.....safest? no....but never comprimised the safety of the public or anyone else...

Well now we're talking crazy hours. I'm going to go out on a limb and say working 36 hours straight for one shift IS compromising safety (even if unintentional) unless the person is Superman, Superhuman, Jesus, God or from another planet. An MD performing emergency life saving procedures because he/she has to save a life is not the same. Little hard to do a turn over in the middle of open heart surgery to a fresh MD. Although some maintenance turn-overs can be complicated, the two situations are hardly comparable. Maintenance should be done at a pace so as not to threaten lives, where an MD has to work at a given pace to save lives.

 

[midnightmech]

...and yet you still want that ticket for $69.00.....have been doing this job since 1973, for 4 diff companys...and its all the same....when the ship is broken , you fix it...and you cant turn the job over if theres only your crew working on it......and you imply that we take less thought and personal responsibility for the comparitive lives of hundreds of people over a physician with 1...hahaha....bite me!