PHX Crew News Session

[USstew23]

I'm all for staying together as a crew but with the whole pilot thing going on it doesn't look like they will ever be on one page. That being said, the fa's will never be on one page either if we sit around waiting on USAPA to get it together. The whole thing with the pilots has gotten completely out of control and if they can't get it together real soon I feel that we as the fa's need to move on if we ever have a hope of getting a single agreement. I'm not really to sure of what other major or "legacy" really stays together anymore anyway and maybe this is just something from the past that we just need to let go of and hope like hell we have a place to come to work to in the next couple of years!

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm all for staying together as a crew but with the whole pilot thing going on it doesn't look like they will ever be on one page. That being said, the fa's will never be on one page either if we sit around waiting on USAPA to get it together. The whole thing with the pilots has gotten completely out of control and if they can't get it together real soon I feel that we as the fa's need to move on if we ever have a hope of getting a single agreement. I'm not really to sure of what other major or "legacy" really stays together anymore anyway and maybe this is just something from the past that we just need to let go of and hope like hell we have a place to come to work to in the next couple of years!

I didn't realize that the AFA felt it necessary to wait for the pilots before they did anything with their contract.

If you feel we're holding you back, then by all means, go right ahead and work your contract out. I don't think USAPA would mind.

(And there were times when I really appreciated changing flight attendant crews after one leg.)

 

[UWCactus]

The entire "it's not safe" to change crews, "building a team" with the same crew etc,. has been talked about over and over and over and there is no real evidence that suggests "not" changing crews is any better or worst than staying together. Briefings are required and professional pilots and FA's can come together in emergencies. It boils down to scheduling. In some cases it works great, in other cases not so well. With the combination of 737 and A320 in the fleet, it made more sense for the west to allow "changing a/c" during a trip, it helps add good yield to what would otherwise be 5 or 6 legs a day. In general, it works well and FA's like it for scheduling reasons.

 

[hulagirl]

I really hope we don't end up having to work with pilots--our pairings are so much better. I'd rather not spend my whole life at the airport or at work for that matter. Get the mucho hours in and go home and forget work. I can't imagine that you all don't want the same. Try it, you'll like it.

 

[Travelpro72]

I see positive aspects to both staying together and not staying together. I also see negative aspects as well. It's a VERY important thing to consider. If the f/a's on the east are under the same duty times as pilots WHY could that not be negotiated on our own? We must admit that we have waited to adjust our contract accordingly with the pilots for years. AFA on their own is not responsible for every little perk we have. Wait.....do we HAVE any? If they can fly you PHX-JFK-PHX what would prevent the company from building a 737 trip PHL-MCO-PHL-MCO-PHL and working around 10+ hours? I sure hope they'd nip that in the bud if we were to split. HELL NO! ! ! !

 

[vantheman63]

Kirby made the analogy that if you see a gas station with gas for 3.50 and another one with gas for 4.00, which one are you going to go to for gas? The cheaper fuel station! Well, let me add my two cents. That isn't a good analogy.

UPNAWAY and others....

FlightChic is WAY more correct/right then you folks are giving her credit for. In fact, in both her posts, I'd argue on her side of all her logic.

The real problem with US, for the 987th time (this week) is that the genius rock star kids in the sand box have "bought into" some real, ugly, not well thought out ideas...

I've heard PineyBob say it....and he's 1,000% right, "sure, it's a commodity, but US made damned good and sure NO ONE would think it anything other then a cheap commodity." Right now, there is only ONE...maybe two points of differentiation.

The DM program is still top notch....I'll give US that....although, they are working triple time to devalue it and, US does have PHL and CLT....which as far as hubs go are certainly worth more that LAS or PHX.

The product continues to be "Sky Bus/De-Valued" on a daily basis...stupid little things like "taking a 3-cent bag of pretzels" out is just dumb. is anyone going to live or die due to this? Of course not...but it goes to point on how this company thinks of it's pax and product. Then there are bigger things like plastic cups, crappy F-Class service/seating/cabins, etc. Frankly, I still fly US...because the ONE thing that Kirby does say that is true is that, at the end of the day, there are times and schedules where I'd just rather "get the trip over with." HOWEVER, those times are getting fewer and farther as I move my travel more and more to CO.

And while we're on that topic...and this is a GREAT example of why the kids in the sand box are just WRONG....

If I'm shopping for air fare, many who know me know on any flight over 3 hours, I'm riding up front, I simply pay for it. I don't rely on upgrades. Now, I'm not all about paying the highest price I can, to be sure, but look, if I'm looking at buying an F-Class ticket, say, PVD-SFO....and CO and US are identically priced, which one do I pick? Thats right I pick CO (This is a bad example since CO is actually LESS expensive 100% of the time)

But you get my point...when you commoditize the product the way, all things being equal, pick the product that has better service...even if it is, only glassware.

And to take it one step further....

For me....lets say CO was, $25 or $50 more....I'll pay a little more because the product is better...less commoditized.

And finally....gasoline companies realize they have a "commodity" issue on their hands...so, anyone care to see what they are doing to try to "brand" their product? Shell has "V Power," etc.....so, most companies understand the ONLY way to have leverage is to differentiate their product and make it better. (read: sand castleless kid companies)

Anyway....FlightChic is right....pay attetion out there everyone!

So, FlightChic is right....much more right.

 

[FlightChic]

It may be more efficient but one has to define the term 'efficient'. For whom and at what cost?

It would be more efficient to the company because they can work us f/as to death making us work 16 hour days, all minimum overnights, etc. Imagine working PHL-SFO-PHL all in one day with only a 9:15 overnight then 7-8 short hops the next day, then another out and back to the west coast the next day, etc. If you're a reserve, then we all know it's no use because we won't be making our time and even if we did we would all be zombies. Talk about more work for less pay! Also, we would be staying in the worst hotels ever. There may also be problems with crews during winter storms in the NE and summer storms on the East coast during the summer. We already have enough irregular ops on the East coast and separation would make it worse.

To vantheman63: You are one of our customers and so I know you get it. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I know you aren't alone. Most people I know see things our way. Mgmt just doesn't get it and it is obvious that they absolutely do not care about taking care of our customers and providing good service and a good product. The problem is, our mgmt places no value on customer service at all. They think that as long as they offer "cheap" fares (not including the nickel and diming) people will continue to fly us. Who cares about nice service they think! We'll fill our airplanes anyway! They're targeting a certain caliber of people and doing all they can to get those who expect a decent product or who are FFs to leave so they can continue to cheapen their product even more. It is so sad. BTW, I refuse to go to Wal-Mart because of the type of people who go to shop there. If we keep up, we will run off all "decent" passengers and only have lower class people on our airplanes for the same reasons. I guess that's the plan B for US Airways.

Article about Nickel and Diming Passengers

 

[Redbird]

It would be more efficient to the company because they can work us f/as to death making us work 16 hour days, all minimum overnights, etc. Imagine working PHL-SFO-PHL all in one day with only a 9:15 overnight then 7-8 short hops the next day, then another out and back to the west coast the next day, etc. If you're a reserve, then we all know it's no use because we won't be making our time and even if we did we would all be zombies. Talk about more work for less pay! Also, we would be staying in the worst hotels ever. There may also be problems with crews during winter storms in the NE and summer storms on the East coast during the summer. We already have enough irregular ops on the East coast and separation would make it worse.

I think you have basically restated my position that 1) it is not necessarily 'more efficient', especially in east coast ops and 2) that it belies the oft stated mantra of 'safety first'.

And having seen the way the ops runs and the on-time percentages, I doubt one could legally do a PHL-SFO-PHL within the 16hr limit. I could be wrong.

 

[FlightChic]

I think you have basically restated my position that 1) it is not necessarily 'more efficient', especially in east coast ops and 2) that it belies the oft stated mantra of 'safety first'.

And having seen the way the ops runs and the on-time percentages, I doubt one could legally do a PHL-SFO-PHL within the 16hr limit. I could be wrong.

Mgmt probably doesn't look at it the way we see it. Afterall, they don't think we need closets on the airplane even though all f/c pax carry on coats in the winter. We foresee the problems and know the operations. They are just thinking about how much they can work f/as and how much money they can "save" by working us harder or whatever. Kirby never said why it would be more efficient. I have no idea why he thinks that. They just don't think things through like we do. Do they even know what it's like when we have irregular operations and storms and mechanicals and delays. They're aren't on the frontlines to see the nightmare operations we have sometimes. I'm sure it would result in having more reserves (f/as and pilots) as well because so many people would be stranded and become illegal they would need more people available for quick calls and such. It would cause many more delays and cancellations since we wouldn't be able to get where we are supposed to be. It will affect all of us on the front lines not just pilots and flight attendants. :down:

I'm going to email mgmt and see if I get a response because I would really like to know their thoughts on this.

 

[elixir]

Just a few comments:

As to the "paired trips"...they may be "measurably" less efficient ON PAPER...ON PAPER ONLY.

So, bean counters with an abacus in one hand, and the AFA regs in the other decide they can get an extra 52 minutes out of the FA's on any given day, so they get split on/off all day.

Right?

So, uh...lets all say the "M" word together....thats right: MISCONNECT.

While I'm no scholar, a late arrival with a crew swap means 2 subsequent flights depart late...instead of just the "paired" crew on their outbound leg taking an outbound delay.

Ummmm, for a carrier who is removing .03 cent pretzels to save money....this is an unworkable "efficiency" suggestion and the beancounter needs to have the abacus shoved up his lolypop.

This just addresses the perceived efficiencies of split crews...

The teambuilding and effectiveness of a "bonded" crew is immeasurable compared to the alternative, I have worked in both regimes.

 

[N965VJ]

I used to do a lot of “Extraâ€￾ trips (4th FA on the 737-400 when there was a hot meal service, remember those ha ha ha), and I always felt less cohesive with the crews I flew with on those trips. Over a four day trip I would work with a dozen or more different crews.

Slinging Cokes isn’t rocket science, but it’s nice to have ONE briefing at the start of the trip and everyone is on the same page at the get-go.

Also, with all the WX delays in the northeast, one could easily see the problems this would create by splitting up the crews.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Let's expand on Kirby's analogy shall we. I freely confess if all other things "Appear" (Appear being the key word) equal I will indeed go to the gas station that charges $3.50 one time.

There's another way of looking at Kirby's analogy that shows it fall far short of reality.

If that gas station (SWA) charging $3.50 is the lowball deal of the city, chances are there is a line around the block waiting to fill their tank.

Personally, I would rather pay the extra money and avoid the delay. Time is money, and sitting on line for an hour to save 5 or 10 bucks is just not worth it to me. But if you have to wait an hour for an attendant to fuel your car at the $4/gallon station (LCC?,) that changes the picture yet again.

 

[elixir]

Yes...indeed. I just finished a few PHL trips and must say we never waited to get parked in PHL...

how refreshing.

However, while I did my time at a J4J carrier, it was common to wait 10-15 minutes for marshallers' in PHL...of course, the pax just bought a ticket on USAirways, they don't know (necessarily) that some segment may be operated by an RJ and all that entails...frequently...a mis-connect.

Make the ENTIRE operation work well...and seamlessly...then you will have the "quan".

 

[Travelpro72]

Also, with all the WX delays in the northeast, one could easily see the problems this would create by splitting up the crews.

It wouldn't be a problem. Tempe said so. It would be nothing shy of a disaster.

 

[ggiby]

It wouldn't be a problem. Tempe said so. It would be nothing shy of a disaster.

I loved the days when at PI we did not stay w/ the crews...

Its so much fun when you have a a/c and no front end crew.... or vice versa...

there were so many days when you had one or the other.... and sometimes no a/c...

and we were all running around the terminal.... asking.... do you have an a/c.... we can go w/ you.... are you legal???
oopps we are not legal.... or..... we are legal.... do you have a front end crew legal???/ oops..... not...

so cancel....

LOL

its the biggest joke....
STAY W/ the cREW...... we are much better off///

also...
Great for CRM...

We all know each other....and how we all could react in an emergency.... and who is good to go....and who is not....